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School Loan forgiveness.



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0
 09.16.2011 3:22pm


Crono
Crono can cross dimensions too!



Bankruptcy is a weird beast. Sometimes they take your house, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they take all your cars with loans on them, sometimes you are allowed to refinance. Sometimes they take your house and you still have to pay some of it back a few years, sometime it's a clean slate. I'm no expert on the field but my family has gone through three of them (once every 8 years almost like clockwork) and I've seen a different case each time. And yes, they are absolutely horrible with money. Poor by no means but then run up tens of thousands of credit card debt, second mortgages, and financing for more than the houses worth.

Anyways, my point is that school loans may fall into that "Sometimes forgiven" category but I honestly have no idea. Google ahoy!

http://bankruptcy.lawyers.com/consumer-bankruptcy/Student-Loans-In-Bankruptcy.html

So yeah, it stays unless you have "undue hardship".



Currently Playing: Dark Cloud 2: 3 hours.
Also Playing: CT, FF VI, Solatorobo, Secret of Mana, Halo 4.
Just Finished: Fable II: 7 hours.




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0
 09.16.2011 3:26pm


Magicjewel
Dr. Fantabulous
Administrator



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/48">Call</a> said:</span>

I'm pretty certain medical expenses and student loans are not included in bankruptcy proceedings.

Forgive student loans? Hell, no. It's a loan. You agreed to borrow money. You agreed to pay it back. Forgive my car loan. Forgive my mortgage. Forgive my credit cards. No one forced you to go to college, and no one forced you to take a loan out to do so. Lower interest rates or lengthen the time allowed to pay them back, but to simply forgive them...No. Crono has the right of it.
ANYONE can say that about ANY government program, tax break, stimulus, etc. I get a VERY similar argument out of my conservative family members as to why unemployment shouldn't exist ("Hell no, I worked hard, they can work hard too") or why there should not be universal health care ("I take care of myself, nobody is paying my health care bills, why should I pay more so someone else can have health care?").

For some of us, there is no option but to take out loan money for school. I will have had to have saved $250K to finish school. My parents were poor when I was a kid and I could never have saved that up. And it's not like I can go to a cheaper college. ALL schools cost that much for what I'm going to school for.

So I guess, in a sense, it's shifting the responsibility of investing in the economy from the government to the citizen?



"Well, your brain seems to work a little bit." -- Rune Walsh, Phantasy Star IV.




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0
 09.16.2011 3:27pm


Kal
yes



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/48">Call</a> said:</span>

I'm pretty certain medical expenses and student loans are not included in bankruptcy proceedings.

Forgive student loans? Hell, no. It's a loan. You agreed to borrow money. You agreed to pay it back. Forgive my car loan. Forgive my mortgage. Forgive my credit cards. No one forced you to go to college, and no one forced you to take a loan out to do so. Lower interest rates or lengthen the time allowed to pay them back, but to simply forgive them...No. Crono has the right of it.

I paid back every cent of my loans at $300 a month. That was money I could have put toward the economy, or my first house. I took a $27,000 loss on my home when I finally sold it after paying two mortgages for three years. I was locked into a depressed neighborhood where home values crashed in 2007. No one came forward to help me out. That $300 I was putting toward my student loans could have helped me to a house in a better neighborhood when I was starting out, someplace I might have stayed and avoided selling out in a poor market.

Student loans are a burden. I know it first hand. But like with any loan, if you feel you might not be able to pay it back, it's better not to accept the money in the first place. A cheaper college, a more realistic goal, a better-paying degree...when you sign the papers, it's your responsibility, no matter what your current situation might be.
While I agree with the practical aspect of what you're saying, that means one should choose a job they can afford and not one that they like. If we start thinking like that, then tuition fees should be directly proportionnal to the average salary you can expect to get with the education you're getting.

I don't necessarly agree that loans should just be forgiven left and right but it also seems very unfair to me that you should choose an education based on wether you can pay for it or not.

But I live in communist EU, so yeah <img title="Undecided" src="/scripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-undecided.gif" alt="Undecided" border="0" />




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0
 09.16.2011 4:29pm


Milky Ore
Kickin' it old school



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/121">Kal</a> said:</span>
I don't necessarly agree that loans should just be forgiven left and right but it also seems very unfair to me that you should choose an education based on wether you can pay for it or not.
I really don't see where the confusion is with this. Everyone has a chance to take student loans. Hell, they're practically given out like candy. And maybe that's the problem. People (not everyone) takes the loans because they're free "now" money and aren't necessarily investing it in their future. They stay in school as long as possible because it's easier than working. They choose a major or profession that's far too demanding than what they're prepared to work for and only make it halfway. (Note the US higher education dropout rate for very popular majors, like bio/med, law, CS.) To me, there are two ends of the bargain. These people are getting loans because they're EXPECTED to get knowledge, and then use that kowledge. But there's no way for a school to enforce that. To me, forcing them to pay back the loan is the only way to enforce that they're just willying around with free money.

Because people will do it. For every hard worker like MJ that would love to contribute more to this world and would be able to with loan forgiveness, I'm sure there's many more that would be like "Free college? Fuck yeah!" and continue to play Halo and smoke bongs every night.

(Not that those two activities are necessarily bad things. Just want to note that before someone jumps on my argument ad hominem <img title="Tongue out" src="/scripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif" alt="Tongue out" border="0" />)




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0
 09.16.2011 4:39pm


Darth Howie
Darthpool
Administrator



Some of you people seem to be living in some kind of time warp where hard work pays off 100% of the time like some kind of inerrant mathematical equation. That's not the way the world works. Some people worked their asses off to earn professional degrees like Law, Education and Medicine only to find that the industry they worked so hard to break into is not creating jobs. So what do you do? You take whatever job you can while continuing to knock on the door of the field you tried to enter. Except no amount of high grades or glowing recommendations will make jobs appear out of the ether. So you go to work in sales, in retail, in whatever is available, even though you are making virtually no money compared to your supposed earning potential. Now you are working a job that barely allows you to pay your bills and then, on top of that, you run out of forebearances on your student loans and you have to start paying down the interest if only to keep them in check, while waiting for the economy to improve and for jobs to start opening up. Meanwhile governors declare war on educators and law firms start outsourcing document review projects to India. People like this have been FUCKED by the system that exacted a price and then didn't live up to its end of the bargain. Before you make such severe allegations, find some proof that people struggling with student debt are just sucking at the public teat. I'm so fucking sick of people attacking people who struggle and blame them instead of the causes of their struggles. Blaming the victim will only earn resentment. The Protestant Work Ethic is a fucking lie.



Woe unto he who tries to be helpful, for upon him shall be lain the burdens of all.

- Squall 15:11




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0
 09.16.2011 5:00pm


Kal
yes



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/88">Milky Ore</a> said:</span>

<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;">Kal said:</span>
I don't necessarly agree that loans should just be forgiven left and right but it also seems very unfair to me that you should choose an education based on wether you can pay for it or not.
I really don't see where the confusion is with this. Everyone has a chance to take student loans. Hell, they're practically given out like candy. And maybe that's the problem. People (not everyone) takes the loans because they're free "now" money and aren't necessarily investing it in their future. They stay in school as long as possible because it's easier than working. They choose a major or profession that's far too demanding than what they're prepared to work for and only make it halfway. (Note the US higher education dropout rate for very popular majors, like bio/med, law, CS.) To me, there are two ends of the bargain. These people are getting loans because they're EXPECTED to get knowledge, and then use that kowledge. But there's no way for a school to enforce that. To me, forcing them to pay back the loan is the only way to enforce that they're just willying around with free money.

Because people will do it. For every hard worker like MJ that would love to contribute more to this world and would be able to with loan forgiveness, I'm sure there's many more that would be like "Free college? Fuck yeah!" and continue to play Halo and smoke bongs every night.

(Not that those two activities are necessarily bad things. Just want to note that before someone jumps on my argument ad hominem )
You seem to be replying to a point I wasn't adressing, but either way what you're saying is a bit like saying welfare shouldn't exist because a handful of people on welfare spend their days at the bowling alley drinking beer instead of looking for a job. Like Howie said, a large portion of hard workers are not rewarded for their efforts and they get a bad name because a handful of people take advantage of the system.




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0
 09.16.2011 5:04pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



Student loan companies are legitimized loan sharks who take advantage of people who weren't born into money who want to get a chance at a decent education and job opportunities outside of McDonalds or vocation.

If university tuition costs weren't so ridiculously high and if student loans weren't inherently exploitative and predatory, I could see the argument against this. But fuck those assholes. Until the system is fixed so more victims aren't created, I'm all for sticking to them and forgiving loans.

And I say all this as someone who doesn't have a cent of debt to them.




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0
 09.16.2011 5:48pm


CaButler
Winter Knight of the Unseelie Court



People in this thread have made better arguements then I could make, so I'm going to say that I'm all for forgiving loans.

However, I think there should be a restriction on whose should be forgiven. I'd probably say students who graduated within the last ten years could apply. But that's my way of compromising.

Also, as I'm also paying student loans, I'm all for forgiving mine.




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0
 09.16.2011 6:53pm


Ulterior
Registered Member



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/61">Free Spirit</a> said:</span>

When it's only certain people who meet certain off the wall requirements that have more to do with how good you are at working the system than actual need, and the majority of those people will inevitably be the same type of people that abuse and take advantage of other "free money for a good cause" ideas like welfare and unemployment, I have to put my foot down and say enough's enough.
I know that this isn't really the issue at hand, and that I'm going to be off topic here, but come the fuck on dude. Now everyone who collects unemployment or welfare is gaming the system? Every poor person is bleeding the country dry because they're fat and lazy and petty?

This view is valid because you said "a majority" instead of "all of them," though. I guess that's legit. We're an election away from having all of our social safety nets being obliterated on a permanent basis, but that's okay becuase a majority of people who use them are at home all day playing video games due to the charity of the state, receiving stipends that they got by tricking Joe Q. Public and standing on the American taxplyer's back. So clearly it would just be better to have no entitlement programs ever and go back to canis canem edit like God intended.

Have the Paultards gotten to you or something?

Anyway, yes, loan forgiveness can be a good thing. But it should be based on things like parent income level, how many loans you took out in the first place and what level of degree you have obtained. As much as I would like to have one less bill a month, I am quite thankful that my payment levels are where they are, and that I can set aside enough money each month to make my payments on time. And that at this time, I'm not going to go back to school for a while.



I love you, everything burrito.




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0
 09.16.2011 6:55pm


Clowd Cole
Dangerous Zombie



as someone who had to skip going to a 4 year college because I couldn't pay for it and I refused to use loans as I knew even after college I couldn't pay for it I don't support this. I made my choice to not go to college because of them so if others that did do loans gets them wiped cleans is like the government is giving me the middle finger and laughing in my face. Unless they plan on paying for me to go back to college like I would like but still can't afford.



Buggle Up! Danger! Danger! (Genocide!) Death the Crisis! Dangerous Zombie!






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0
 09.16.2011 7:15pm
Thread Creator

Id82
Fuck Shit Stack.



For a person in my field of work of freelance, unemployment is important. When I get let go from a project I get let go. I'm pretty much thrown on the street with a thank you for your hard work. I need unemployment to help pay my bills whilst I wait for my next gig. I'm not sitting on my ass, I'm constantly looking for my next job. If unemployment was cut I would not be able to support myself.




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0
 09.16.2011 8:13pm


Murasame
HALE YEAH



Some incredibly bitter people in this thread. I'm sorry you didn't have an easy life. I'm more sorry that the thought other people will have an easier life (not a good life, but an easier life) on money that is only technically yours makes you so angry that you want to cut everyone off. As someone who was only capable of speaking to you through this medium as a result of the magic of government assistance (rather than living in a ditch somewhere, sucking the cheese off of pizza boxes), a polite but incredibly sincere fuck you. I am more than happy to pay my taxes when (if!) I earn enough, even knowing that my money supports people who are more or less socially retarded. Because I sure as fuck would not want to work anywhere near my brother.

I'm mostly sorry that you live in a country in which a medical degree costs $250k. Jesus christ on a bike.

WAY OFF TOPIC

Also, forgiving loans would only be sensible if the loaning schemes was restructured and less full of crazy private loan bullshit. Seriously. Whoa.




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0
 09.16.2011 8:54pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



It's the Rich Conservative M.O.: Trick everyone beneath them into thinking things that are good for them (and bad for the rich and megacorps) are the exact opposite. The rich get richer and the poor are in no position to do anything about it because they're idiots.

This is often done by creating some sort of boogeyman (in this case, the welfare/unemployment leech) that represents but a small minority of the people who actually need these services to uh, live.




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0
 09.16.2011 8:57pm


Clowd Cole
Dangerous Zombie



I'd be in support of this more if they also paid for anyone to go to college in the future. Why give a large group a break while the kids just starting college are just going to be in the same position later.




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0
 09.16.2011 9:49pm
Thread Creator

Id82
Fuck Shit Stack.



Well I agree that if loans are forgiving there should be some kind of new rules or regulations on loans, a way to make it easier to pay them off after a kid is done with school. The cost of education needs to decrease some how, over the past 10 years the price of going to school skyrocketed. I'm glad that I got out of school when I did because it's going to get even worse.




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