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Videogames Revieweer ... woes





0
 10.13.2011 12:58am


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



I have a bigger problem with games reviewers who don't play the entire game.
Which in mainsteam gaming media is probably the majority of them.




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0
 10.13.2011 3:48am


Crisium
N/A



10 point scores are basically ABCDF anyway.
9-10 A
8 or 8.5 B
7 or 7.5 C
6 or 6.5 D
5.5 or less F

It's true that the one half score gradiant is irrlevant once you get around 5.5 or so, but it works fine above that.  But yeah, it's best they actually ackowledge that like 1UP does.  It doesn't make sense when one crappy games gets a 3.5 and another gets a 4.0.  They both are to be avoided like the plague unless you are a super fanboy of the series or genre.  So just call it an F and get it over with.




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0
 10.13.2011 4:03am


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



I really don't hold "not playing an entire game" against reviewers. Especially when there simply isn't enough time to play every game to completion in a timely fashion, like 40+ hour RPG's, sports games with 60 hour career modes, and MMO's that get new content on a regular basis. Most games you can form a pretty accurate opinion about in a few hours anyway. I really can't think of any games that I had a complete turnaround of opinion of 20 hours in vs. 5.




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0
 10.13.2011 4:22am


CaButler
Winter Knight of the Unseelie Court



I'm not going to hold them on not complting the game.  Like Onyx said, they simply don't have the time to play everything.




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0
 10.13.2011 9:32pm
 (Edited on 10.13.2011 at 9:38pm)

Spidey
So Sigh Ety



Not just that, but why should they be forced to play a bad game? You aren't gonna suddenly score a 2 star game a 5 stars because of the ending, and if you did, I would hate you as a reviewer because I personally wouldn't put up with a 2 star game for a great ending. Again this ties back to the score matching what the review says. As long as the review says "this game is so bad I gave up halfway through, this is my score" then no problem.




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0
 10.13.2011 9:54pm


Ashilyn
Career GM



I certainly think they should have to play it a fair amount, at least. Obviously there won't be time to play some games to completion, particularly RPGs, but I've played my fair share of games that start really slow and kinda crappy, but blossoum into pretty fucking fantastic games after a bit of time (which tends to vary from genre to genre - some shooters, for instance, don't really get good until you get a few weapons or abilities, or past the first few awful levels, and some RPGs just have the worst intro hours)







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0
 10.13.2011 10:00pm


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



Or vice versa. The Wind Waker's a prime example there. It starts out brilliantly, but once you get to the, huh huh, "fishing segment," it goes to hell and doesn't deserve anything near the high marks it got from all the gaming media.




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0
 10.13.2011 11:54pm


Spidey
So Sigh Ety



Yeah of course they'd play a fair amount, I just mean "completion" is an arbitrary  mark. Playing enough to unlock all gameplay aspects/elements and understand the story is enough. But if a game takes 30 hours to finally use the battle sysetm the way it's meant is a SEROUS problem in itself (see FF13) Even if, say, I love FF13's full battle system, the fact that it doesn't open up til 30 hours in gives me the right to review the game at 25 and say this game is no fun playing as 2 party members because, the review is fair doing that since the majority of the plot is spent using only two party members.




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0
 10.14.2011 1:15am


Seelas
I want to go back.



It's weird to mention Roger Ebert, because what Roger Ebert does is not even the same category of thing as what game reviewers do. Game reviewers are there to inform a purchasing decision. The core issue for them is "Should you spend your money on this?" It's not at all surprising that when they're trying to persuade you one way or the other on something like that, that the spirit of writing is generally disingenuous.

What we actually need is some game criticism, like we have with film and music. People who will review a game not from the standpoint of what you should spend your money on, but what the game accomplishes artistically and makes you think about.

I don't care that much about the inflated scores or bandwagoning so much as the fact that as prose, game reviews are generally insufferable to read and make me feel stupider.




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0
 10.14.2011 4:08am


SuperSquall
Shortening His Posts



Onyx said:

I think trying to judge games on objective merits is really silly when the experience of  each game is entirely subjective. There's nothing dubious about liking one game a hell of a lot more than another if they have similar, or even identical flaws. Because that's ignoring the positives of the games. If the negatives are all that defines how you see video games, get another hobby.
Although I agree with what you later say about gamers being whining shits, that the medium is subjective isn't important.  The parallel to movies is important to, but I mean all digested culture is subjective and contains things like personal bias.  That doesn't mean the idea of reviewing a game by objective or subjective measures is useless.  Like you, I have a few trusted sources and I go with them - but the masses have their uses too, just like the tomatometer.

All the garbage about terribly skewed averages (7/10 = bad game) and game reviewers that are either more fan boy than critic or more whiner than grader will hopefully get better with time.




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0
 10.14.2011 7:06pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



Seelas said:

It's weird to mention Roger Ebert, because what Roger Ebert does is not even the same category of thing as what game reviewers do. Game reviewers are there to inform a purchasing decision. The core issue for them is "Should you spend your money on this?" It's not at all surprising that when they're trying to persuade you one way or the other on something like that, that the spirit of writing is generally disingenuous.

What we actually need is some game criticism, like we have with film and music. People who will review a game not from the standpoint of what you should spend your money on, but what the game accomplishes artistically and makes you think about.

I don't care that much about the inflated scores or bandwagoning so much as the fact that as prose, game reviews are generally insufferable to read and make me feel stupider.

That's not going to change until game critics and the media in general approach video games as an art form and not video games as a consumer market. The vast majority of sites and publications are trade, not cultural. And the sites that try to approach gaming as an artform are insufferably egotistical, longwinded, and pretentious (see: Insert Credit, Action Button, anything else Tim Rogers has touched).

Though I will say that, at their core, reviews for just about every medium boil down to "Should I spend money on this?" Film and music reviews get more in-depth about the artistic merits, but ultimately it's to inform/persuade the reader of a purchasing decision.

While video games have taken long, long strides from being seen as just kids' stuff, they're still not taken very seriously as art.  Film and especially music started more as artforms and eventually became more commercialized. Video games are going to have to do the opposite, and I doubt this will happen anytime soon.




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0
 10.15.2011 5:19pm
Thread Creator

shooter_mcgavin
Registered Member

Playstation Magazine has given Uncharted 3 a 9.9 in their exclusive review ... suprise suprise? Eh maybe not

What is i've noticed too, though, is that the standards of giving high scores in reviews have lowered. I remember in EGM when giving 9's or 10's were scarce and were only given to a select few. I believe there longest dry spell for any individual reviewer in giving 10's was from 1994 (Donkey Kong Country) to 1998 (Tekken 3), even Resident Evil got (9.5, 9.0, 8,5, 8,0).

However, since MGS and Zelda: OOT, came out where the magazine decided to blast perfect 10's in the game. They magazine realized they set the bar that low to get perfect scores that every AAA is going to end up getting that score or close to that. This is why even though the magazine bashed the story and the main character the reviewers somehow decided it was their obligation that they had to give 9.5's for MGS2. Every publication or website has followed that suit. Any site/magazine that doesn't give super hyped games those crazy high scores will be met with controversy. EGM would probably have been crucified by the public today if a game RE got the scores it got.

Which is why gaming critisims and reviews need to change. First they need to change their review scores to more restrictive intervals. Yeah I agree with a 5 Star System since this rating systems measures more on how much they recommend the game for purchase and also will require them to write a more accurate review since they can't use infated scores with .1 increments to divert the reader's attention.

I hope this changes soon. Gaming industry is such a big entertainment industrythat its now starting to find itself as a legitamate form of art. You can see this with symphony orchestras from gaming sountracks and the Smithsonian having a video game exhibit. The only next leap that needs to be taken is to have gaming journalism and critisims be taken just as seriously, work with dignity and pride.

On a side note ... I remember doing a movie review for the company I work for (no that's not my job ... I'm an SAP Developer, this is just an initative). So it's a fun initative and I enjoy doing reviews. So I did the review for Crazy, Stupid, Love. Let's just say I did not like it. I gave it 2 Stars (out of 5). But when it was published I noticed, without telling me, that my review was bumped to 3 Stars and removed sections where I gave not too flattering remarks on the film. While the other person's Captain America review was intact with its 4.5 / 5 Star review .

I asked the person who lead the reviews what happened to my write up. She said that since a lot of people loved the movie she didn't want to have a public out cry so she made it 3 Stars and edited my write up. She said that "i guess we should have made it 2.5 Stars" (which I don't do since I never gave .5 inrcreemnts).

My experience pretty much sums up what's wrong with the gaming critics and reviewers.




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0
 10.15.2011 7:53pm


tenken
Hooligan



Crisium said:

10 point scores are basically ABCDF anyway.
9-10 A
8 or 8.5 B
7 or 7.5 C
6 or 6.5 D
5.5 or less F

It's true that the one half score gradiant is irrlevant once you get around 5.5 or so, but it works fine above that.  But yeah, it's best they actually ackowledge that like 1UP does.  It doesn't make sense when one crappy games gets a 3.5 and another gets a 4.0.  They both are to be avoided like the plague unless you are a super fanboy of the series or genre.  So just call it an F and get it over with.

That's actually a very interesting point, and I think you're on the mark there.  The 1-10 scale isn't inherently bad, but it became a bad scale for scoring due to its continued association with the letter grades assigned to percentages in schooling.  Where outside of game reviews is a score of 1 through 5 all failing?  In school!  Functionally, it renders up the first half of the scale as meaningless - which is why 1Up has the right idea by just ditching numbers and going with the letter grades.

My preferred scale is the five-point/star scale.  It just doesn't carry the same baggage with it as the 10-point scale does.  For example, a game that scores 3 out of 5 is in the middle, and probably a perfectly playable, enjoyable game - the type where, if you're given to like whatever kind of game that is, there's a strong chance this game will bring what you're looking for.  But wait...on a 10-point scale, that same game just scored a 60%.  Ouch.  That would put it in no-buy territory.  With a five-point system, even a game that ranks 2/5 isn't necessarily a flat-out "no buy", if you like the genre and accept the shortcomings it'll have for the sake of the larger experience.  But no one would buy a game that was rated 4/10 in a game review.

Because each point in the 5-point scale represents 20 points, it forces each rank to be meaningful - there are fewer numbers, so one has to carefully evaluate what each number means (and use the .5 sparingly, otherwise it just becomes the 10-point system in disguise), lest all the reviews get too similar numbers and the numbers then cease to make a real statement about the game (which is...not all bad; maybe then people would actually turn to the review text! What a novel idea!).  When I see the 5-point scale employed, though, I feel as though those numbers stand for and encompass more - a lot more than some niggling 0.3 vs 0.8 difference in the scoring scale.




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0
 10.16.2011 2:53pm


Plumbum
Yes, what of it?



While I do share the sentiments toward game reviewers, I've found that when I check for reviews of games, I find reading a bunch of reviews better than just combing scores. When I was planning on getting the Champions of Norrath Sequel a few years back, I found that it got a lower score. So I did some research, and by reading some of the more niche reviews I found that some of the more fun gamebreaking features were taken out despite them not having an effect on multiplayer.




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0
 10.16.2011 5:11pm


Crono
Crono can cross dimensions too!



I agree on the 5 point scale.  RPGamer uses it and they use it very well (almost always).  A 2.5/5 doesn't actually translate to what others would rate a 50% game.  A game rated 50% is probably vile but a game that gets a 2.5/5 is at least playable and potentially decent for some people.



Currently Playing: Dark Cloud 2: 3 hours.
Also Playing: CT, FF VI, Solatorobo, Secret of Mana, Halo 4.
Just Finished: Fable II: 7 hours.




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