Aurora shooting discussion goes here

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07.21.2012 9:23pm

Thread Creator

Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007

Fuck the media. Who cares about the shooter's life story.

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07.21.2012 9:37pm

Dh
Not in the face!
The Alpha and the Omega

People want to be able to explain what happened, point a finger at something, and take action so they can feel like they're doing something about it. The blame will be focused on his parents, video games, Batman, drugs, gay marriage, gun laws, righties, lefties, Obama, or whatever other stupid reason they can think of instead of simply accepting the fact that some people are just fucking crazy.

Then you have loonies like this who think the government was behind it: https://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

People want a solid, tangible answer, and sometimes there just isn't one. This dude's brain wasn't wired correctly. We'll never know why and we can pump our society with as many laws, security, and fear as possible and it won't change anything. This will happen again someday. It's horrible, but it's life.

I made this for you!

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07.21.2012 10:07pm

Onyx
Butts
Administrator

The gun control argument this shooting has sparked makes me want to take both sides of it behind the woodshed and smack the shit out of them with a tire iron.

Why the "if people in the theater were packing/Colorado allowed concealed carrying, this wouldn't have happened!" argument is retarded: the shooter was wearing a bulletproof vest, which anyone can tell you covers the easiest-to-shoot part of the body. And that isn't exactly a situation where you can calmly aim for a headshot. Figure in that it's dark, the killer used tear gas, and that it's pure chaos with tons of people scrambling to find cover/escape and you probably end up with even more dead bodies in the vain attempt to stop him.

Why the pro-gun control argument is stupid: Now I don't think it's confirmed yet, but I'd be willing to bet money that he didn't get his weapons through legal channels. And he's probably the kind of person where even if he did, I imagine nothing would've stopped him from getting the stuff illegally. From the way he wired his apartment with explosives to claiming he was the Joker, I don't think we're dealing with someone who would've said "I can't buy this military grade AK-47 at my local Walmart? Fiddlesticks! I guess I won't go on a killing rampage after all!"

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07.21.2012 10:13pm

Id82
Fuck Shit Stack.

I don't really care about his life, but I am interested in how his brain is wired.

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07.21.2012 10:16pm

Clowd Cole
Dangerous Zombie

Onyx said:

The gun control argument this shooting has sparked makes me want to take both sides of it behind the woodshed and smack the shit out of them with a tire iron.

Why the "if people in the theater were packing/Colorado allowed concealed carrying, this wouldn't have happened!" argument is retarded: the shooter was wearing a bulletproof vest, which anyone can tell you covers the easiest-to-shoot part of the body. And that isn't exactly a situation where you can calmly aim for a headshot. Figure in that it's dark, the killer used tear gas, and that it's pure chaos with tons of people scrambling to find cover/escape and you probably end up with even more dead bodies in the vain attempt to stop him.

Why the pro-gun control argument is stupid: Now I don't think it's confirmed yet, but I'd be willing to bet money that he didn't get his weapons through legal channels. And he's probably the kind of person where even if he did, I imagine nothing would've stopped him from getting the stuff illegally. From the way he wired his apartment with explosives to claiming he was the Joker, I don't think we're dealing with someone who would've said "I can't buy this military grade AK-47 at my local Walmart? Fiddlesticks! I guess I won't go on a killing rampage after all!"

Goddamn. This is exactly what I have been wanting to scream all fucking day.

Buggle Up! Danger! Danger! (Genocide!) Death the Crisis! Dangerous Zombie!

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07.21.2012 10:27pm

OrionHardy
Otherworld

Onyx said:
Why the pro-gun control argument is stupid: Now I don't think it's confirmed yet, but I'd be willing to bet money that he didn't get his weapons through legal channels. And he's probably the kind of person where even if he did, I imagine nothing would've stopped him from getting the stuff illegally. From the way he wired his apartment with explosives to claiming he was the Joker, I don't think we're dealing with someone who would've said "I can't buy this military grade AK-47 at my local Walmart? Fiddlesticks! I guess I won't go on a killing rampage after all!"

Caught it on the news that he had purchased the weapons legally, but the amount of ammo he had was purchased online illegally. So yeah, I doubt extra gun control would have help in this control. Some one this mad I'm not sure even making guns completely illegal would have helped.

I've heard conflicted reports though. I've heard he stormed the cinema dressed as bane, but this BBC report says he was dressed as Joker

Great men aren't everywhere, just where it counts.

If you ever see me online playing Halo, join me please.

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07.21.2012 10:31pm

Dh
Not in the face!
The Alpha and the Omega

I read that all the equipment he used during his massacre was acquired legally. He's had no run-ins with the law and has no criminal record whatsoever, so obviously the media is still trying to get their shit straight.

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07.21.2012 11:32pm

Monetary Dragon
Just keep swimming

There�??s every reason (including media reports) to believe that his weaponry was acquired legally. That said, stricter gun laws certainly wouldn�??t have helped in this case as he was already most likely violating laws against explosives (in his �??booby-trapped�?? apartment).

Yes, the fact that he was armored makes the �??if someone else had a gun in the theater�?? moot. The guy also had a helmet, likely sufficient to defeat common pistol rounds, making effective headshots much more difficult (read: virtually impossible) as well. Unless one of the moviegoers was similarly wearing a gas mask, armor including ballistic plates, and carrying a semiauto rifle with plentiful ammunition and was well trained, it likely wouldn�??t have helped.

OrionHardy, do you have any kind of source on the claim that he had violated any laws in ammunition purchasing? Purchasing ammunition online, in any quantity, is very simple and legal. Is there some kind of local law in his jurisdiction that he violated?

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07.22.2012 12:24am

Amer
pew pew pew

Id82 said:

I don't really care about his life, but I am interested in how his brain is wired.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Too soon?

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07.22.2012 12:26am

OrionHardy
Otherworld

I don't, I was watch BBC news 24 and the police cheif was taking questions and I sure he said that the Ammo had been purchased illegally. From what your saying though, I may have misheard him.

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07.22.2012 4:29am

Seelas
I want to go back.

Onyx said:

Why the pro-gun control argument is stupid: Now I don't think it's confirmed yet, but I'd be willing to bet money that he didn't get his weapons through legal channels. And he's probably the kind of person where even if he did, I imagine nothing would've stopped him from getting the stuff illegally. From the way he wired his apartment with explosives to claiming he was the Joker, I don't think we're dealing with someone who would've said "I can't buy this military grade AK-47 at my local Walmart? Fiddlesticks! I guess I won't go on a killing rampage after all!"

I'm not pro gun control (I don't really care either way, I think gun crime is a symptom rather than a cause and that statistically there's mixed evidence on whether gun control laws are effective) but this reasoning isn't too convincing. Everything is circumstantial reasoning about the type of guy you think he probably was. The stance is that we don't know that he got the weapon legally, or that he would have been deterred by gun control laws, but that we're pretty sure. But the reality is that, in the absence of a lot of supporting evidence, we really just don't know at all.

Not trying to defend the gun control media stink, and yeah he was obviously a wacko, but I dislike when this type of probabilistic inference of character comes up in gun control discussions.

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07.22.2012 5:44am

Crux
A mental Dentist's office

Amer said:

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Too soon?

No, that's exactly what I've been thinking since he said he was the Joker.

This story is on how Reddit was giving actual answers from people working on the scene (tough from people possibly lying, but reporters are just as capable of lying although they have their credibility on the line)
Reddit Responds to Shootings In a Way Most Media Outlets Can't

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07.22.2012 6:46am

Monetary Dragon
Just keep swimming

The guy's apartment was littered with IEDs. I'm reasonably certain that this is not legal, and that the illegality of it did not stop him (for that matter, the illegality of opening fire in a crowded movie theater did not stop him from doing that, either).

Media reports are that his purchases of the weapons were done legally through local gun stores. There is no reason to doubt this, given that the guy had no criminal record, and the weapons were not inherently restricted or anything. The guy would have had no more difficulty in buying those guns legally than I would have. (EDIT to clarify: no difficulty at all)

Another thing; a lot of media reports about the guy's arsenal, etc. are simply incorrect. I was just reading a writeup on CNN, which is supposedly a news organization, on the guy's weapons. It stated that AR-15s normally have a capacity of 5-15 rounds. The standard magazine capacity for an AR-15 is 30. The people at CNN just don't know anything about guns. It is also quite possible that the police chief that OrionHardy mentioned is simply ignorant of ammunition purchasing laws. There is a ton of ignorance on this issue, even among people who you would hope should know better.

I remember watching an episode of SWAT, and some weapons were recovered from a drug house that was targeted. A SWAT team member was holding a recovered AK-47 and saying to the camera, "This is an SKS".

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07.22.2012 9:53am

Arckanghel
Pirate.

I think the real issue is that we worry about the guns instead of the underlying problems of violent crime in our country. However, that should be a long term issue we're at. Maybe Gun Control is necessary for our nation, I'm not sure. There are obvious ways it could have likely helped in this occurence. But using this tragedy as an emotional and extremeist jumping point for either part to react instead of calmly get to the bottom of the matter is ridiculous.

Good Magazine had a an interesting perspective on the whole thing. http://www.good.is/post/the-aurora-shootings-here-s-one-meaningful-response/

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07.22.2012 3:19pm

Onyx
Butts
Administrator

I'm hardly one to use NRA talking points, but you take away guns and the only people with guns are the criminals. It's scarily easy to smuggle in illegal weapons into this country.

Gun control helps prevent accidental gun deaths (like the kids who get into their parents' gun cabinet and accidentally shoot themselves in the head) and that's a good thing. But the gun violence in this country is a symptom of a much larger problem, not the cause.

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