Final Fantasy Online

Home Articles Games Forums Shop
You are not logged in. Log In or Sign Up.
Browse Online Now Directory New Posts Achievements Help/FAQ
Search


Final Fantasy Online Forums  >  Community Discussion  >  General Discussion

School Loan forgiveness.





0
 09.18.2011 7:28am


Magicjewel
Dr. Fantabulous
Administrator



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/59">Monetary Dragon</a> said:</span>


EDIT: [b]Fukiyama[/b] is onto something- the stupidly high increase in college education costs, far beyond inflation, is likely driven in large part by the availability of student loans. Medical school costs are almost incomprehensible if you don't consider that the loans are readily available and the job you get later eventually allows you to pay them off.
Yes and no. It depends upon the field of medicine you go into and if you subspecialize on top of that (I plan to). Since it would be irresponsble of me to plan for financial aid that hasn't been given to me yet, I'm looking to defer $250K of total loan money at least seven years. Which means around $400K in loan repayment, most likely.

Not a problem if I want to be a doctor, right?

Now since I want to do academic medicine, I will get paid lower. Also, I want to serve low and middle income individuals in my clinical practice PRIMARILY. Since I will be doing research (using my PhD) and teaching at the same time, I won't be seeing patients as 100% of my job. So not only will I get paid lower (and have lovely high-cost malpractice premiums since I'm going into a subspecialty of OB/GYN), I will not see patients as much. This means as a starting doc, fully credentialed, I will be paying out the fucking ass and not living very well if I want to live like a responsible person and not beyond my means.

Private practice physicians, who only do clinical work, however, make tons of money. But since I want to deal with non-rich people and add scholarship to the field through teaaching and research, I won't make as much as they do. But that's what I feel called to do, so I'm gonna do it and suck it up. Sure would make life choices like starting a family easier though if I didn't have $3500 a month student loan payments to look forward to (this is why Public Service Loan Forgiveness coupled with income based repayment is a LIFELINE).

Honestly, though, I feel lucky compared with others I know that have both private and public loans and have been unable to find a job in their fields. I have some close friends who have gotten screwed by a system they put time and love and effort into, struggled and finished school and professional schools and then the economy fucked them and there was NOTHING they could do about it. And now they are stuck trying to make ends meet with random retail jobs when positions in law, education, and other fields were what they were told they could do. They did their best, they got their education, they graduated, and then they got screwed. Student loan interest is still accruing, but there is no way that they can pay back that money right now. While I'll have to manage my money well and just consider delaying life choices to pay back my loans, they are in a position where they have tons of loan money but CAN'T pay them back, because as much as they've been trying and trying, the jobs in the fields they were educated in now do not exist.



"Well, your brain seems to work a little bit." -- Rune Walsh, Phantasy Star IV.




 Jump to Post







0
 09.18.2011 7:29am


Arckanghel
Pirate.



https://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/data-reports/congress/tanfp7.htm

Length of Time on Assistance
The median length of time on assistance was 2 years since the most recent opening of the case. One in three families had been on the rolls for one year or less, and one in four had been on the rolls for five years or more. Since FY 1994 there has been a small but steady decline in the percentage of the caseload on assistance in their current spell for one year or less (36% to 33%) and a corresponding increase in the percentage of the caseload on assistance five years or more (19% to 24%). This suggests the long term recipients are an increasing percentage of state caseloads. More than 40 percent of the families are known to have been on the rolls sometime prior to the most recent opening.





 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 7:59am


Monetary Dragon
Just keep swimming

Magicjewel, some thoughts, many of which are only loosely related to loan forgiveness:

Why do you think that medical school is so expensive? I work at one, and I can&rsquo;t really figure it out. The students are taught by MDs and PhDs (for the first couple years at least, before they start clinical rotations, which themselves seem like they should be inexpensive outside of insurance issues), not unlike any normal college. I can&rsquo;t really understand the disparity.

Are you MD/PhD? At my institution, the MD/PhD students do not pay tuition for medical school. And why do you want to do both clinical practice and research? I know that it is technically possible to do both, as I&rsquo;ve met a tiny handful of people who either do or probably will be able to do it, but as a whole I feel like the MD/PhD &lsquo;idea&rsquo; is some sort of trick, that you only have one life to live, and that you should figure out what you want to do with that one life you have. Being a good physician and a good scientist are almost mutually exclusive (the exceptions being the phenomenal genius perfect people).

A medical student working in my lab tells me that half of the people in her class will graduate with no debt. The implication, of course, is that *many* (if not most) of the current crop of medical students come from very rich backgrounds. This is unfortunate, since something like getting an MD should be merit-based and not decided by social class. But that might simply be, unfortunately, the way it is. (And the fact that many of the students are independently wealthy only helps boost medical school costs, because the students can afford it, helping perpetuate the cycle).

After college I had to decide between microbiology and philosophy and I chose microbiology in large part due to financial/employment considerations. You sort of need to be independently wealthy to go into philosophy as a career.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 11:18am


Call
Firefightin' Administrator
Administrator



Deferment until your education starts earning its keep? I believe even this idea to be flawed. Many graduates go into fields where there is little to no earning potential. What if they graduate, figure out that their $100,000 liberal arts degree (no offense meant to anyone) isn't going to earn them untold riches, and decide that they're just never going to pay their loans back? I have a journalism degree, and only after I took a job outside that discipline was I able to effectively pay off my loans.







 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 11:56am


Murasame
HALE YEAH



Nobody said the degree had to be useful.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 1:08pm


Big Tall
Taller Than Tall



And then you have people, like myself, who get student loans and don't finish college/university. After two years of university, costing about $12,000 annually, I had no degree and a lot of debt before I turned 20. It took a family tragedy for me to have the money to pay them off (after they went to collection since I could only get shit jobs) and I don't even want to think about how much I'd still owe if not for that. Then again, it's my fault I didn't finish the degree or didn't switch to another program I would have enjoyed at the time.

Part of me says loan forgiveness is a good idea and I agree with Amer that there would have to be a set of criteria as far as who gets the loan forgiveness. Having a degree would be a must to qualify as far as I'm concerned and a minimum amount of around $10,000 in debt.

The other part of me is with Call. The money was borrowed so it should be repaid. Drop interest rates and be done with it.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 2:29pm


Arckanghel
Pirate.



<a href="https://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp";>For the record</a>, individuals with Liberal Arts degrees rank in pay higher than median both in starting and mid career and beat out the pay scales fo many other options. They are also invaraibly in the top ten hired degrees according to the BLS. :p

And I really still have little objection to forgiveness with conditions. We already do that, we know what areas we need jobs and employees in. No easier way to funnel them right into the positions. It seems that as a society we benefit as a whole from the large amount of people educated. Or at least hopefully we will since we have been continually falling behind the rest of the world in getting the education job done.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 4:43pm


Sanna
What a Tedious fight!



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/100">Darth Howie</a> said:</span>

Some of you people seem to be living in some kind of time warp where hard work pays off 100% of the time like some kind of inerrant mathematical equation. That's not the way the world works. Some people worked their asses off to earn professional degrees like Law, Education and Medicine only to find that the industry they worked so hard to break into is not creating jobs. So what do you do? You take whatever job you can while continuing to knock on the door of the field you tried to enter. Except no amount of high grades or glowing recommendations will make jobs appear out of the ether. So you go to work in sales, in retail, in whatever is available, even though you are making virtually no money compared to your supposed earning potential. Now you are working a job that barely allows you to pay your bills and then, on top of that, you run out of forebearances on your student loans and you have to start paying down the interest if only to keep them in check, while waiting for the economy to improve and for jobs to start opening up. Meanwhile governors declare war on educators and law firms start outsourcing document review projects to India. People like this have been FUCKED by the system that exacted a price and then didn't live up to its end of the bargain. Before you make such severe allegations, find some proof that people struggling with student debt are just sucking at the public teat. I'm so fucking sick of people attacking people who struggle and blame them instead of the causes of their struggles. Blaming the victim will only earn resentment. The Protestant Work Ethic is a fucking lie.
The truth, it's all in this paragraph. I work two retail jobs and I have no choice but to live at home with my parents because I can't even earn enough money to save, much less barely pay my bills. --One of them is my stupidly expenisve health insurance which is $178 a month that doesn't include eye or dental. Just regular doctors visits. Health insurance is a fucking racket, if you ask me. But that's for another thread-- Granted I only have two assciate degress, but you'd think with some sort of education I could find a job that would pay me higher than $7.25 an hour, right? No, not so much. So, yeah, if people with masters degrees are having trouble find decent work (One of my friends had to move out of state just to find a job in her field, pretty sad), what hope is there for me? And I'm hesitant to go back into school in fear of being in debit forever and having no hope for my sad excuse for a life.

Free health care and education is sounding pretty damn good to me at the moment.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 4:50pm


Murasame
HALE YEAH



$7.25

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR COUNTRY




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 4:57pm


Sanna
What a Tedious fight!



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/69">Murasame</a> said:</span>

$7.25

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR COUNTRY
A lot of things....or everyhing. Yeah, that's minimum wage for North Carolina. I don't know how the hell they expect anyone to live off that. That's how much I make at Hallmark, the job I work the most at. I only work about two days at the other where I make $8.50 an hour. Yay :|

My boyfriend told me his ex-girlfriend (who lives in Australia) made around $18 working at a juice bar and then $20 working for a bathing suit store (Seafolly, I think is the name). I nearly shat a brick. And she lives on her own in an apartment with a roommate. And went to Great Britain on "holiday".

...Yeah, I think there's plenty wrong with this country when you compare it to other ones. UGH.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 5:29pm


Fukiyama
Sysadmin of my brain



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/69">Murasame</a> said:</span>

<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;">Fukiyama said:</span>

College education is the next great bubble precisely because the government has made it so easy for America's children to sign up for loans.

Instead of facilitating a broken system by forgiving loans, we should be fixing the system by weaning Big College off the government teat.
How do you get "Government Teat" from "Too many loans"? A sensible, standardised, means-tested Government based loan system makes plenty sense. Infinite, crazy interest rate, student exploitative loans do not.
Government subsidized college loans = government mandated subprime mortgages

Skyrocketing college tuition = Housing price appreciation far beyond the average over time

Students unable to pay their government subsidized loans back = Homeowners unable to pay their mortgages

Banks take a bath and pass on their debt to the government and the taxpayer




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 5:37pm
 (Edited on 09.18.2011 at 5:43pm)

Murasame
HALE YEAH



Forgive me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, the government loans aren't particularly useful if you want to buy books n' shiz, merely pay tuition. It's the private loans that everyone goes for, because they're easy to get, and the money isn't purely for tuition. As a result &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; number of private loans than government loans. Right? Am I reading the situation right?




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 6:59pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



The government loans are pretty meager for most students. The private loan companies make a killing because of how ridiculous even public college tuition, room, and board is these days, much less private schools. And too many students fall into that category of "too poor to afford college on your own, and too rich to get substantial financial aid."

If you're really poor, you can get into college for near free if you're really smart or athletically gifted or receive a nice amount of financial aid. If you're rich, obviously, money isn't much of an issue and mommy and daddy can pay your way easily. If you're an average middle class American, you're fucked.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 8:10pm


amaron
No answer, must be that deaf bitch.



<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;"><a href="/forums/profile/27">Sanna</a> said:</span>

<span style="font-size: 11px; color: #959595;">Darth Howie said:</span>

Some of you people seem to be living in some kind of time warp where hard work pays off 100% of the time like some kind of inerrant mathematical equation. That's not the way the world works. Some people worked their asses off to earn professional degrees like Law, Education and Medicine only to find that the industry they worked so hard to break into is not creating jobs. So what do you do? You take whatever job you can while continuing to knock on the door of the field you tried to enter. Except no amount of high grades or glowing recommendations will make jobs appear out of the ether. So you go to work in sales, in retail, in whatever is available, even though you are making virtually no money compared to your supposed earning potential. Now you are working a job that barely allows you to pay your bills and then, on top of that, you run out of forebearances on your student loans and you have to start paying down the interest if only to keep them in check, while waiting for the economy to improve and for jobs to start opening up. Meanwhile governors declare war on educators and law firms start outsourcing document review projects to India. People like this have been FUCKED by the system that exacted a price and then didn't live up to its end of the bargain. Before you make such severe allegations, find some proof that people struggling with student debt are just sucking at the public teat. I'm so fucking sick of people attacking people who struggle and blame them instead of the causes of their struggles. Blaming the victim will only earn resentment. The Protestant Work Ethic is a fucking lie.
The truth, it's all in this paragraph. I work two retail jobs and I have no choice but to live at home with my parents because I can't even earn enough money to save, much less barely pay my bills. --One of them is my stupidly expenisve health insurance which is $178 a month that doesn't include eye or dental. Just regular doctors visits. Health insurance is a fucking racket, if you ask me. But that's for another thread-- Granted I only have two assciate degress, but you'd think with some sort of education I could find a job that would pay me higher than $7.25 an hour, right? No, not so much. So, yeah, if people with masters degrees are having trouble find decent work (One of my friends had to move out of state just to find a job in her field, pretty sad), what hope is there for me? And I'm hesitant to go back into school in fear of being in debit forever and having no hope for my sad excuse for a life.

Free health care and education is sounding pretty damn good to me at the moment.
There's plenty of hope, if you have any type of skill at all.

I've finished two community college classes, never taken a SAT test, but since I know AutoCAD I've had a job since I was in High School in 1996.

But, to be honest, you really might need to leave NC if you want to actually make money. Your cost of living is low, so you'll never be paid anything more than what the company can legally get away with paying you.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but why bother with health insurance if you're healthy? Most if not all doctors charge a whole lot less than $178 for each visit. I wish I could go without and save the $780 a month I pay for it.




 Jump to Post



0
 09.18.2011 8:40pm
Thread Creator

Id82
Fuck Shit Stack.



Health insurance is needed if there's an emergency. Getting into an accident, a sudden freak sickness comes about if you need to go to a hospital and you don't have insurace they won't take care of you. If you get a sudden freak sickness its not like you can call insurance companies up to cover you because they won't. They don't want to give you insurance if you're sick. Not until 2014 when obama's health plan goes into full effect, and insurance companies can't deny you anymore.




 Jump to Post












Jump to

Go




© Copyright 2024 Final Fantasy Online, All Rights Reserved
Home  |  Articles  |  Games  |  Forums  |  Shop  |  Contact Us  |  Terms of Use  |  Privacy Policy
Become a Facebook FanFollow us on Twitter