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Vegetarianism





0
 05.30.2012 2:46pm


Sanna
What a Tedious fight!



Darth Howie said:

I don't judge dogs or cats for eating meat, so I won't judge people for it.  We are omnivores by design.  Without supplements, one can't have a balanced diet and be a vegetarian.  Are our current methods of farming meat ineffecient?  Yes.  They absolutely are.  But it's possible to find meat that was farmed more ethically if you are willing to put in the money (it's always more expensive) and effort in. 

This is how I feel about it, reallly.

Also Lowes Foods (a grocery store chain) has stopped selling chicken with added hormones. I can't vouch for other grocery stores, though.

I love veggies, but they don't always love me back. I have acid reflux, so I pretty much eat whatever doesn't cause my stomach trouble.




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0
 05.30.2012 4:21pm


Murasame
HALE YEAH



I like meat. I buy free range when and if possible. I try to avoid heavier meats, animals that take up more space, ones I couldn't or haven't killed, but that's just a thing I have. A vague justification for eating meat. Giving up chicken would be the worst thing ever, because all my good food memories involve chicken, even the one that involves me vomiting up a chicken burrito, because it turns out burritos taste just as good both ways.




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0
 05.30.2012 5:49pm


Kellios
Yikes and away!



Add me to the people who respect vegatarians for making the switch, but not one personally I could do myself. I just like meat too much to ever give it up. I try and compensate by eating as much sustainable meat as possible. I'm also another one who lately has gone far more the chicken/fish route in a change in my diet than as much red meat as I once did eat (but, yes, a juicy steak? Omnomnomnomnom). 

I think one of the best decisions that's also been a great aid in weight loss (for me, personally, anyways) is being far more conscious of what I eat. I'm making it a point to eat "real" things - veggies, good quality meat, nuts, beans, things that are natural and not processed. By cutting out a shitload of soda, chips, and other crap I'm finding my body is way happier with me. I'm still not perfect and some of that stuff can slip in, but I've been much better about it than in the past and I'm finding it has done wonders for me. And not just in weight loss - my skin's the best it's been ever, I feel much more refreshed with more energy, my system's a lot more regular and overall have an increase in my health.

Best of luck to you Atma! And keep a log of everything you eat. I also find that helps when I'm trying to figure out what works really well for me and what doesn't. It'll probably help you initially work out the kinks and also knowing exactly what you put into your body.





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0
 05.31.2012 1:15am


Blayze
Registered Member

Count me in the "I couldn't be a vegetarian because meat is too damn yummy" club.

I was always brought up to eat everything put in front of me, so I've no problem eating any vegetable, even ones I don't particularly like such as cauliflower and cabbage (or downright detest in sprouts). But the part of a meal I invariably like the most is the meat portion that goes with it. Even now I'm cooking for myself, I still try to have a portion or vegetables with a meal (although I'm more likely to take the tin of sweetcorn/baked beans/ mushy peas route), but I can't imagine preparing a meal without some meat or fish, it just wouldn't feel right. I work in a city centre so tend to grab take away lunches most days, and I similarly find no appeal in the extremely limited vegetarian options on offer - a pizza or burger without generous servings of dead animal is no pizza or burger in my eyes!

So while I respect people who could convert to vegetarianism for ethical or other reasons, I can't imagine anything that could make me do so.




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0
 05.31.2012 2:56am
Thread Creator

Atma Weapon
I Am Pure Energy

I totally understand the intuition that one would not be able to go without meat. This is the view I used to hold, on the rare occasion that I gave my food choice any second thought at all. If you read the logical argument I posted up front, the answer to this question gets to the very heart of it: my pleasure is not the only factor to consider. The question is, "on balance, does my preference for juicy meat taste outweigh the the other consequences that made this food available to me?". It seems the answer is clearly no. I value intellectual honesty above a slightly more preferable taste.




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0
 05.31.2012 8:14am


Magicjewel
Dr. Fantabulous
Administrator



Zophycakes said:

I have a really awful aversion to a lot of leafy greens and find the texture to be repulsive beyond my control. Being a vegetarian would be really difficult for me, but I wish it wasn't like that. I'm pretty concerned about my long-term health and try to make up for it where I can. My goal over the next couple years is to shift to pescetarian, or near to that.

I was pescetarian for years before I went straight to vegetarian.  It worked well for me.

The biggest problem is probably the expense.  It's MUCH cheaper to be an omnivore than a pescetarian, vegetarian, or vegan.  I worry that the next couple of years may be force me back to being somewhat of an omnivore just to survive financially.  Ethical meat sources are still pretty expensive as well (which is part of why I don't even try).



"Well, your brain seems to work a little bit." -- Rune Walsh, Phantasy Star IV.




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0
 05.31.2012 9:11am


Murasame
HALE YEAH



Atma Weapon said:

The question is, "on balance, does my preference for juicy meat taste outweigh the the other consequences that made this food available to me?". It seems the answer is clearly no. I value intellectual honesty above a slightly more preferable taste.

There's no clarity in opinions.

I don't particularly enjoy the idea that by becoming vegetarian, you are divorcing yourself from the issue. I appreciate, far more, ideas of economy and taste. The moral and ethical issues around animal treatment remain, regardless of what you eat. I see an attempt to eat meat ethically just as reasonable as avoiding meat entirely. I know it sounds callous and heartless, but meat production is clearly more than just meat.




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0
 05.31.2012 4:29pm


kjonez
with a Z



I have a wheat and rye allergy, somehing very similar to celiac disease in that I can't eat many of the foods that have gluten in it. My girlfriend has allergic reactions to nuts and some fruits and vegetables. With much of the basic food groups inaccessible to us meat is a very nice option. When i shop for my meat products I go to a local butcher who I know is good about buying his inventory from more humane farms. I know that sound off to most vegatarians/vegans but there are meat lovers out there who like to cause as little stress to the animal as posssible.

My uncle is a hunter and I get much of my other meat from him. The deer/turkey population in northern CT is very high and the fraction of a percentage that he takes out of the wild each year won't affect the balance of nature. It's tough to explain to people that I like to eat venison without them claiming me to be a Bambi killer. I invite them to drive around the area for a day and count the amount of deer they see that have been hit in the road and then tell me there isn't an overpopulation of animals in the area. This area is mostly woods too, so there isn't a huge amount of roads all over the place.

The way I see it, even without the food allergies I would still be eating meat. It's a great source of nutrition and I balance it out with the vegetables and fruits to maintain a healthy diet. It's also delicious, and it would be very hard to persude me otherwise. But I don't knock anyone else who feels differently and I let them eat whatever they'd like to based on either nutrition or ideas for animals.




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0
 05.31.2012 4:45pm


amaron
No answer, must be that deaf bitch.



kjonez said:

I have a wheat and rye allergy, somehing very similar to celiac disease in that I can't eat many of the foods that have gluten in it. My girlfriend has allergic reactions to nuts and some fruits and vegetables. With much of the basic food groups inaccessible to us meat is a very nice option. When i shop for my meat products I go to a local butcher who I know is good about buying his inventory from more humane farms. I know that sound off to most vegatarians/vegans but there are meat lovers out there who like to cause as little stress to the animal as posssible.

My uncle is a hunter and I get much of my other meat from him. The deer/turkey population in northern CT is very high and the fraction of a percentage that he takes out of the wild each year won't affect the balance of nature. It's tough to explain to people that I like to eat venison without them claiming me to be a Bambi killer. I invite them to drive around the area for a day and count the amount of deer they see that have been hit in the road and then tell me there isn't an overpopulation of animals in the area. This area is mostly woods too, so there isn't a huge amount of roads all over the place.

The way I see it, even without the food allergies I would still be eating meat. It's a great source of nutrition and I balance it out with the vegetables and fruits to maintain a healthy diet. It's also delicious, and it would be very hard to persude me otherwise. But I don't knock anyone else who feels differently and I let them eat whatever they'd like to based on either nutrition or ideas for animals.

I lived in the Bristol, Torrington, Plymouth area for almost all of my 32 years and I can say that I ALWAYS saw deer, rabbits, and wild turkeys running around all the time.




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0
 05.31.2012 5:32pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



Even here in New Jersey we have a really high overpopulation of deer. Hunting restrictions don't make things any easier.  While I emphatically disagree with hunting for sport, I'm perfectly OK with hunting for food, especially if you want to avoid the factory farms.

In a sense, hunters who hunt for food are the most local of localvores. Shawn Michaels (yes, the wrestler) is an avid hunter, cleans and cooks all the animals he kills, and donates the rest of the food to local homeless shelters and the like so nothing goes to waste.

I respect vegetarian diets, even if I'll never be able to follow one. I just hate the vegetarians and vegans who ride a moral high horse about it. But then I hate people who ride moral high horses in general.




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1
 05.31.2012 5:38pm
Thread Creator

Atma Weapon
I Am Pure Energy

If you're going to eat meat, it's actually far more humane to kill Bambi than it is to drive down to your local supermarket.




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0
 05.31.2012 5:56pm


Southern Comfort
silently judging all of you



There's also the fact that hunters are some of the staunchest environmentalists you will find.  Maybe not on a large scale, but definitely on a local scale - they see and understand how a clean and healthy environment directly impacts their hunting success, and the direct effects of prey species overpopulation.  After all, if they want a fourteen-point buck, they need lots of land in a natural state with plenty of food and clean water to get one.

As for eating animals, we have bred most domesticated animals for ten thousand years (at least!) to provide food for our tables.  This is their purpose, and it is not itself an evil act to humanely raise and kill them for our sustenance.  (Humanely!  Factory farming for a society addicted to cheap meat is something else.)  Whatever stance a person chooses to take on the subject of slaughter for consumption is absolutely fine - so long as they remember that it is an opinion, and that someone who chooses otherwise is not wrong either.




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0
 05.31.2012 6:16pm


Kal
yes



Back when I was a kid in Ontario, hunting deer was actually encouraged by local authorities in my area, as the population was out of control and it was starting to threaten the eco-system. I have vivid memories of driving past pick-up trucks loaded with piles of bloody deers on the way back from camping. 
Venison is delicious.

In the grand scheme of things, buying fruits or vegetables that have been imported from the other side of the globe is way more "harmful" than buying meat from even "non-humane" farms... so I try to buy local meat, fruit and vegetables whenever I can. However, the fact is, when you live in a large city, that stuff can be three, four or even five times more expensive than the regular kind, so it's not always an option.
If I had more money to allocate to food however, I'd definitely be much more careful about what I buy and try to reduce the amount of meat I consume.




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0
 05.31.2012 11:36pm


Som
Genitals are Funny



I hate vegetarians. Sorry but i just do.

I'm biased though. Like if you decide to go vegetarian because you have a problem with eating animals or whatever then cool. What i hate are people like my sister and to a lesser extent my mum. People who have gone vegetarian because they think it's healthier. She's constantly feeling sick, tired and all sorts of other crap since she changed, but insists it's everything else in the world but her diet change.

ALso once got in an arguement with my friends's old girlfriend while she was drunk. she had a go at us for eating steaks and whatever we had for dinner, while wearing a pair of leather shoes and leather belt etc. When i pointed that out i was yelled at.




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0
 05.31.2012 11:44pm


Onyx
Butts
Administrator



Like any other diet, you need to know what you're getting into with vegetarian and especially vegan diets. You need to know what to eat to fulfil basic nutritional needs, as well as take some vitamin supplements. Otherwise you're going to be malnourished.




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