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Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion (May Have Unmarked Spoilers)

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0

02.23.2012 8:25am

Thread Creator

Zubis
Registered Member

https://twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson

It takes about 3 months from "content complete" to bug-fix, certify, manufacture, and ship game discs. In that time we work on DLC.

DLC has fast cert and no mfg., so if a team works very hard, they can get a DLC done in time to enjoy it with your 1st playthrough on day 1.

On #ME3, content creators completed the game in January & moved onto the "From Ashes" DLC, free w/ the CE or you can buy seperately.

0

02.23.2012 4:02pm

Darth Howie
Darthpool
Administrator

Som said:

So because they've done it before, we shouldn't make a big deal if they do it again? I should remember that arguement next time i get caught speeding.

Also this isn't some small insignificant character like Zaheed or Sebastian Vael. It's a fucking
Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.
prothean.

If you aren't planning on spending money on something, you have no right to complain about what's included. They're not stealing from you. You're stealing from them.

Woe unto he who tries to be helpful, for upon him shall be lain the burdens of all.

- Squall 15:11

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02.23.2012 5:37pm

Ashilyn
Career GM

Southern Comfort said:

Apparently you will have to be logged into Origin to play on the PC. No offline mode. Yes, this is an antipiracy measure. Yes, release groups will most likely have a crack out for that a few days later. Yes, this is how I recommend you play ME3 on the PC, even if you bought the game.

Also, transferring saves is one of the major selling points of the entire series. I'm sure it will be casually easy to transfer saves on the PC, and if it's not, it shouldn't be that hard to fish out your last save file and import it from the desktop.

Origin does have an offline mode, like steam, but getting it to work can be buggy at best sometimes. Your games will tstill work if you can get it to save your credentials, it just may not always do that. But yes, Origin is required for activation, installation, and play of the game, and even if you crack it to work without Origin, you'll still need Oirign installed and to be online to play mulitiplayer.

As for people complaining about teh DLC and "BAAAAAW IT SHOULD'VE BEEN PART OF THE MAIN GAME", stuff a sock in it. So should have Shale, Sebasttian, and Kasumi (who originally WAS part of ME2, as was Lair of the Shadow Broker). Some things are finished after the main game, others have to be cut for time and production reasons. Would you rather this be like the old days, where when something had to be cut, we just plain never saw it again? DLC CAN get out of hand, definitely, but so far I believe Bioware's been pretty good about it, using it for bonuses and things that we otherwise would have never gotten to see. And really, leaked audio files from the demo make it pretty clear this guy is not the huge deal people think he is, he's more of a walking codex than anything else.

Anyway, they've released more about what "From Ashes" actually is. It's more than just the mission and character, it's a nice little DLC bundle that includes

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

the Prothean teammate, a mission to Eden Prime,

costumes for every character (in addition to the ones in the CE), a weapon, and something else. So, for $10? This is actually a nice little value If you don't want it, don't buy ut, and certainly don't complain if you're pirating the game. But me? I think this is cool.

And like I said, I really can't help but laugh at people like total biscuit or BSNers who are whining about BioWare going too far. Let's see... at launch ME 3 has:

A collector's edition (why are we complaining about this?) with a bonus weapon set, a little robotic dog, a hoodie for Shepard, a set of alt costumes, and the From Ashes DLC
Preorder DLC that you get from everywhere
Preorder DLC that you get from Origin
Preorder DLC that you get from GameStop
An iOS game that features a new, unrelated character, adds Galactic Readiness points, and maybe sends a few weapons back to ME3
A free iOS app that serves as a mobile hub and fun centre for your Mass Effect 3 game
A whole bunch of merchendise that would have existed anyway, and as a BONUS includes multiplayer recruit packs or an assault rifle
A few items you get FOR FREE if you play a FREE demo for another game
An online pass that costs you $10 if you buy the game used.
The From Ashes DLC, which costs $10 if you buy the game's standard edition, and all signs point to it being very optional

At launch, Mass Effect 2 had:

A physical collector's edition that included several weapons
A digital collector's edition that included different weapons
Preorder DLC you could only get from GameStop
Preorder DLC you could only get from Best Buy
Promo DLC that you could only get by drinking bottles of Dr. Pepper
Promo DLC that you could only get by buying a whole seperate game (Dragon Age: Origins)
An iOS game that starred two characters central to Mass Effect 2, and unlocked weapons in the main game
The Cerberus Network, which promised some free DLC and included Zaeed, but cost $15 if you bought the game used

The two really aren't that different from each other, and fi anything I'd argue that ME2 was a bit more monotised. At elast the free multiplayer unlocks in ME3 are froms tuff fans would likely be buying anyway., like figures, or artbooks, or gaming devices. Not Dr. Pepper or whole other games. And for good measure, lets look at Dragon Age 2 at launch:

A "Signature Edition" edition which included exclusive items and The Exiled Prince DLC, received for free if you preordered the game before a certain date.
The Exiled Prince DLC, which cost $7 if you did not preorder in tiem to receive the Signature Edition.
The Black Emporium, which cost $10 if you bought the game used
Preorder DLC for any preorder
Preorder DLC from Best Buy
Preorder DLC from the EA Store
Preorder DLC from the Bioware Store
Promo DLC for signing up for the DA newsletter
Promo DLC for signing up for teh enwslatter from a scpeial Penny Arcade page
Promo DLC for registering your game
Promo DLC for completeing the demo
Promo DLC from Facebook games
Promo DLC from the game's facebook page
Promo DLC for buying from an onlike replica weapons store
Promo DLC if enough people played the demo
Promo DLC for having purchesed another whole game (Dragon Age: Origins)
Promo DLC for having purchesed another wholly unrelated game (Dead Space 2

It's not that I don't sympahise that things may have gotten a little out of hand - though I don't really think they have for ME3, since ME3 is by all means pretty tame compared to some other games - it's more... people are waiting until now to complain? ME2 was pretty much just as bad, and Dragon Age 2 was far worse, yet the viritol was not nearly the level it is now for either or those. There may be some legit complaints there, but I think this is anotehr example of it all getting lost in overblown BioWare Hatemongering.

0

02.23.2012 7:08pm

Kellios
Yikes and away!

Zubis said:

https://twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson

It takes about 3 months from "content complete" to bug-fix, certify, manufacture, and ship game discs. In that time we work on DLC.

DLC has fast cert and no mfg., so if a team works very hard, they can get a DLC done in time to enjoy it with your 1st playthrough on day 1.

On #ME3, content creators completed the game in January & moved onto the "From Ashes" DLC, free w/ the CE or you can buy seperately.

*soapbox*

Hasn't been as much as an issue here at FFS, but I'm still rather blown away about the backlash about the whole DLC thing. Hudson there is exactly correct in how it works in the industry; it's not like they continue working on the main part of the game the night before it launches and then prints them all out on DVDs for the next day release. You gotta take time to make sure all bugs are ironed out (which can be very time consuming, especially for a game such as this), everything works as it should, and to print the amount of discs needed to meet demand. This takes months of work. While because DLC is digital, you can release it at a quicker pace, and doesn't have to go through the thorough certification (from both Sony and Microsoft) the main part of the game does. So yes. Part of the team would be working on bugs/cleanup/etc while another part would be pursuing DLC. They've worked their asses off to get the game AND DLC to you Day 1, and this is how the "fans" thank them?

"Then why wasn't it included in the original game?" you might ask. And that can also be for a variety of different sort of reasons. Maybe they, oh, I dunno, wanted to make sure they took the time to give you the best game possible, rather than just rushing it and slapping it on the game, which would have people bitching anyways. Or the idea came way too late into production, but because they have the luxury of DLC, they can include it now instead of just being like, "Damn, too bad we can't share this anywhere."

"Well then, why not make it free?" This sounds more like an EA decision than anything, and they're a business - to make money. You have to account for the time the developers spent (ensuring jobs for many of those people, rather than laying them off at the end of "normal" production, which is a VERY common practice), on the DLC package, and time = money. So you're going to get the publisher milking a popular series for what it can, and it happens with all big/popular gaming titles.

And it's as simple as, you don't like it? Don't buy it. But nor will I comend pirating the game. That's just having your cake and eating it too, and then complaining about Bioware policies. You didn't support your developer by buying the game, why the hell should they listen to you? And publishers are necessary evils at this current point of time. Unless Bioware can pull the Double Fine trick, there's no way to get the budget otherwise for a game like this. And so there's going to be things publishers do that annoy you as a consumer. And oftens times not left to the developer. But as of now, that's just how it is.

*/soapbox*

Sorry, this has been bugging me over the last couple of days, and felt the need to say it in a place that I know wouldn't cause me too much backlash. But now being a developer, there's just so much normal consumers don't say, and it's just frustrating to see how entitled the "fans" feel. Thanks to the majority of you in this thread for actually being sane about it, other than jumping on the hatebus.

0

02.23.2012 7:13pm

Ashilyn
Career GM

Kelly, you're expecting "gamers" to listen to reason. You should know better than that at this point. Sad, sad times the gmaing culture exists in. I think people just want something to justify being angry at BioWare about and aren't really looking at any of these things called facts. But I already ranted about that earlier.

0

02.23.2012 7:30pm

Kellios
Yikes and away!

I know, but still =(

0

02.23.2012 7:46pm

reido
(\/)(o,,,o)(\/)

Not just gamers. Gamers on the internet.

Not that gamers off the internet really exist in large numbers.

0

02.23.2012 7:57pm

JSG
Registered Member

Kellios said:
Sorry, this has been bugging me over the last couple of days, and felt the need to say it in a place that I know wouldn't cause me too much backlash. But now being a developer, there's just so much normal consumers don't say, and it's just frustrating to see how entitled the "fans" feel. Thanks to the majority of you in this thread for actually being sane about it, other than jumping on the hatebus.

A lot of it is that people have no idea how things work because most gamers don't work in the industry. Until you just said that, I sure as hell had no idea how things worked. If you're not an insider and just buy the games, it does look like splitting up completed content (the game and the day-1 DLC) to charge more. Because we know it's a business and they want more money, but have no idea how it works internally. So from an outsider perspective it just looks like releasing an incomplete product and jacking up the price on stuff that's already done and should have been on the disc.

Cue internet hyperbole and dumb, entitled gamer bitching and you get the full-blown stupidity that you see on message boards.

I feel kind of dirty defending Internet Gamers, but considering I've done my share of complaining about DLC, I figured I'd at least defend myself on the matter.

0

02.23.2012 8:04pm

Thread Creator

Zubis
Registered Member

With this and the disgusting attack on the Bioware employee last week I'm almost ashamed to be fan.

0

02.23.2012 8:08pm

CaButler
Winter Knight of the Unseelie Court

It's a weird generation we're going through, in terms of the new kind of gamer.

The internet hasn't helped things either, given that everybody has a twitter or facebook account now.

Still, it's disgusting to how people are these days and how they're "entitled" to this and that.

Hell, with the way things are going, it's going to be exactly like that movie Gamer, and that was a bad movie. I don't want to be in a world that was predicted by a bad movie, because that would be terrible.

0

02.23.2012 8:55pm

Ashilyn
Career GM

JSG said:

A lot of it is that people have no idea how things work because most gamers don't work in the industry. Until you just said that, I sure as hell had no idea how things worked. If you're not an insider and just buy the games, it does look like splitting up completed content (the game and the day-1 DLC) to charge more. Because we know it's a business and they want more money, but have no idea how it works internally. So from an outsider perspective it just looks like releasing an incomplete product and jacking up the price on stuff that's already done and should have been on the disc.

More people know this stuff than you might think, and choose to completely ignore it. That, or they willingly assume that they know better how the industry works than the people actually working in it. I'm not saying it's information everyone knows, but it's not nearly as unknown as you think. I mean, as much as I hate the sites, if you actually check out the comments on places like the BSN, Kotaku, Destructoid, PC Gamer, ect, plenty of people know it works this way. BUt they don't give a shit because they're acting like little brats not getting what they want or have some falsely perceived idea of loss, or just want something to hate.

There's also a hilarious number of people who are just using this shit to "legitimise" their desire to pirate the game. And, I mean, I'm guilty of that too. I was all ready to drop my preorder and pirate the game when announced it would require Origin for everything. But I like the series and Bioware too much so I decided to not be an asshole about it. But for some people, it's just a matter of finding some way of making their decision to pirate seem legit, so they come off as some kind of internet hero instead of, well, a pirate.

Zubis said:

With this and the disgusting attack on the Bioware employee last week I'm almost ashamed to be fan.

Hell, I'm becoming ashamed to be a person who plays video games. I'm not going to lie and say that in some ways, DLC isn't totally out of control. It totally is with some games, and with all the perorder bonuses and nickel and diming some games do. I'm not going to lie and say their aren't issues with some games or companies, because there are totally a lot fo questionable practices and developers out there. But holy christ, with the amount of viritol and entitlement gamers have these days, it's no wonder culture at large looks down on them. Console gamers in particular - PC gamers are complete brats, but watching console gamers get so up in arms about things we've had to deal with (and ahve accepted) for years is hilarious.

0

02.23.2012 9:16pm

Big Tall
Taller Than Tall

What always gets me laughing is the vast majority of in-game items you get for pre-ordering, or playing this tie-in game, or that tie-in demo, are only useful for the first few levels and then utterly useless. Sure, you start off a little more powerful which helps the growing pains but they're usually ditched pretty quick.

As far as content itself, I maintain the same attitude I've always had: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Name one piece of DLC that was absolutely mandatory to play the game. Maybe Broken Steel with Fallout 3? It resolved the (shitty) ending and let you keep playing after the credits roll. Good? Yes. Mandatory? No. Until we start seeing "This DLC provides 10 alternate endings to the game as opposed to the one you originally saw!" is it that big a deal? Apparently so.

Extra characters, missions and so on that are chopped from the main game and sold as DLC are always going to be a point of contention because that's exactly how they're referenced; chopped from the main game. Day 1 DLC? The worst for that would be who, Capcom? And what's the DLC most of the time? Costumes? Not mandatory in the least.

In the end, I still have control over what I buy and don't buy. If I enjoy the game, I'll probably buy all the DLC (hello horse armor), but bitching about when and how it's released? I'll pass, thanks.

0

02.23.2012 9:57pm

Sturm
Registered Member

Big Tall said:
What always gets me laughing is the vast majority of in-game items you get for pre-ordering, or playing this tie-in game, or that tie-in demo, are only useful for the first few levels and then utterly useless. Sure, you start off a little more powerful which helps the growing pains but they're usually ditched pretty quick.

It's funny, I generally don't redeem those codes. Punching in the 16 digit code using a controller is not worth the effort to me.

0

02.23.2012 10:25pm

Ashilyn
Career GM

Sturm said:

It's funny, I generally don't redeem those codes. Punching in the 16 digit code using a controller is not worth the effort to me.

You realise you can enter them from the Xbox website, right?

0

02.23.2012 10:31pm

Cult of Personality
Insert witty remark here.

I love the Mass Effect series. I actually couldn't give you one good reason why I preordered the Collector's Edition because that is something I normally do not do for any game. It just felt like I had to because its likely to be the last hoorah for Sheperd, and damn all I got pretty attached to my Sheperd so it felt like I needed to preprder the CE. That being said, all the stuff that comes in it are bonuses. I could care less about them. Was the DLC something I would eventually buy if I hadn't gotten the CE? Yes...maybe even on release, I dunno. Bottom line is I wouldn't be bitching and moaning about it, especially if I were pirating the damn game. If I like a game enough, I will buy the DLC for it as long as its something that interest me. Plain and simple. You don't like it/want it or don't believe in DLC, don't fucking buy it. It's pretty straightfoward. And if you think you're entitled to something, the only thing you are entitled to is someone's foot up your ass.

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