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E3 2014



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0
 06.12.2014 3:34am


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



Zo said:

Games companies like money. Triple-A games are expensive. Therefore, triple-A games have to play it safe, hence nostalgia, sequels and new IPs that do their best to remind you of other, established franchises (looking at you, Watch Dogs). So when a franchise like Assassin's Creed chooses not to include women as playable characters, it's not because Ubi hates women, it's because someone out there has crunched the numbers and decided that it would make them more money not to. Which is deeply fucked up, but in ways that are difficult to complain about on Twitter.

They must've crunched some pretty outdated and/or inaccurate numbers, because the proportion of male-to-female gamers is more or less even in 2014.




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0
 06.12.2014 3:48am


Mole
Somebody loves ya.



idk about video games but it's been shown in most industries that women will buy stuff with men in / on it but men will not do the opposite




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0
 06.12.2014 3:57am


Amer
pew pew pew



I believe those numbers count cell phone games. My wife hasn't touched a console since SMB on Nintendo and she even plays Candy Crush on her phone. I guess she's a gamer now. 

I think Ubisoft is being particularly lazy here, especially given the past AC games including playable women. I don't know why using the same animations is all the sudden not good enough.

But let's face it, yes there are more women gamers than ever before but they still aren't the target demographic for many of the AAA big studio games. 




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0
 06.12.2014 4:38am


Kellios
Yikes and away!



And you don't think Ubisoft has their own internal percentages of who plays what of their games? Ubi is a very large publisher with a wide breadth of games (from Rayman to AC to Ghost Recon to Just Dance), and they target what they think will make them the most money. They probably saw the majority of AC gamers are male, so they cater to that first.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that Ubi did very recently release a game with a female protagonist.

And now that we're in the new generation of consoles and gaming - yes, having to use the same animations for male and female isn't good enough anymore. There are new standards and expectations. Ubi probably felt they couldn't pull off the quality with the time they had, so they made the decision to cut.

Yes, more women now are playing more games than ever. But most AAA games are still played by men. The stigma needs to be broken, and unfortunately Ubi dropped the ball on this one. Especially considering Liberation, which was not only a female lead, but a non-white female character. And that's great! Too bad it was released on the Vita, and by different developers than the ones on Unity, so I don't know how much of the assets could potentially be re-used. I can only imagine after this there will be a push. 

And one other thing to consider - Ubi the Publisher could've made the call to cut the female characters, despite Ubi the Developer (Montreal in Unity's case) wanting to. Which happens far more than what people realize.





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0
 06.12.2014 4:48am


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



I still find it impossible to believe that female avatars in 2014 was so far low on the list of many other things that could've been cut out.




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0
 06.12.2014 1:02pm


Zo
another blue ribbon



Dude I'm still waiting for a time when having LGBT characters in any media doesn't put a happy surprised smile on my face like "oh hey, they remembered I exist!".




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0
 06.13.2014 4:07am


SuperSquall
Shortening His Posts



Kellios said:
Does it suck? Yeah. A lot. I want more female protagonists, I want more representation of my gender in my games. But I understand it too - Ubisoft wants to make the best and most polished game they can, and I can tell you it's never, ever an easy decision to cut out something ike that. If you think they made that decision lightly, then please kindly go stick your head into some sand.
I'm with you up until this last bit, because in the gaming industry there are kinda two factions.  There are the people who love their craft - I'm going to call them the "artists". Even if they are programmers, a person who cares about the integrity of their work is an artist for the point I am making.  There are also the people who are business types and want to make money and the video game is just a means to that end.  I'm going to call them "assholes".  Most of the developers are artists (although some of what was said obviously came from some assholes), but this seems exactly like a decision that WAS made lightly by a bunch of assholes.  It would've been a tough decision for the artists, but I promise you, upper management at Ubisoft was not conflicted about the choice.

When the backlash came their first response wasn't "I know, I know, it was a really tough decision..." it was "Twice as much money = nope".

As far as Ubi having released Child of Light recently - sure.  Great.  It kinda gave me the vibe of being marketed towards Dad's with daughters who want their daughters to play video games, and that's great.  It also was not their AAA team that made it, that was their artist team.  People are upset because the AAA team at Ubi is obviously run by assholes, and ones that represent the backwards and embarassing values of the douchebag gamer demographic that is as artificial as it has been recent.  Games weren't *as* sexist back in the 90s (Samus was a woman!) and they might not be in the 2020s, but man, Generation Y gamers were trained to be a bunch of pricks, and now they are running Assassins Creed Unity.

I also call bullshit on the idea that next gen consoles won't cut corners with things like unisex animation rigs.  Every studio is going to cut that corner as much as possible.




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0
 06.13.2014 5:39am


Zubis
Registered Member



Found this on Reddit, very relevant.

https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/27ut97/distinct_lack_of_female_characters_due_to/ci5z8i7

Producer/Project Manager with more than a dozen shipped titles across every major platform chiming in, including more than a couple with 8-digit budgets.

Different words get used with different context within the game industry that have a different flavor internally than it might to the general public. Words like "cost", "expensive", and "feature" can mean ENTIRELY different things depending on who you're talking to.

Something "costly" could mean it takes up a lot of bandwidth cycles within a game engine. Something "expensive" could mean that the project manager feels it's going to take a lot of work/effort/complexity during a particular release cycle. Something that's a feature could simply be a particular requested item from a designer (could also be called a story, an epic, an ask, an item, or whatever terminology that team is using at the time, often depending on the methodology the team is using for production).

On my current team, EVERYTHING that is requested by the EP, CD, or designers is a "feature" - regardless of what it is. Want a new animation? That's a feature. Want a new weapon type? Feature. New character archetype? Feature. Anything new that does not already exist within the game is a feature. Anything that is involved in the work necessary to create the feature is a task or subtask. A collection of features is either a theme or an epic (depending on the flavor of the collection).

This shorthand exists for teams of developers to work efficiently together. My production staff does all the wrangling so that the designers, engineers, artists, animators, and QA can do more work and still get home to their families while their kids are still awake.

Features all have costs. To the project. To the company. To my team members. If I have to make a call as to whether or not this product of entertainment includes a feature that leaves someone somewhere feeling a bit left out OR whether or not my development staff has to put in some weekends (a staff that includes significant numbers of women - many of whom are mothers or even grandmothers, mind you), then I'm going to want to weigh those costs against their work/life balance...and your personal feelings on the subject aren't nearly as important to me as the well-being of my team. Sorry if that offends. Actually, no I'm not.

Building out a new female character is just as difficult as creating a new <insert ANY adjective here> character. It means new concepts, models, rigging, storyline changes/additions, script changes, VO, and cut scene changes/additions. All of these additions now live in the game code alongside everything else, which might already be getting pretty crowded depending on what platforms you're delivering to. All of these additions make the code base larger and even more complex. All of these additions create bugs and technical debt that needs to first be found through additional QA (sorry guys, you're in this weekend because of the new character cut scenes) which then result in more work from the engineers (sorry guys, you're in next week till 10 PM mandatory because of the expected bugs from the new cut scene that QA will find over the weekend).

Because it's a console title that has a firm ship date (release date for AC5 is October 28th), you want to be submitted at least 8 weeks in advance to first party approvals (Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo have to approve the code you want to put on their systems before they allow you to go to manufacturing - the RTM, or Release to Manufacturer is required before you can put your disk in a box). Once you have your approval, you have a scheduled and contracted run at one of the THREE approved manufacturers allowed to take your production run within the U.S. Miss your RTM date and too fucking bad - EA or Activision or Majesco or whoever has the time scheduled immediately after yours and they're not in a mood to negotiate with you for Q3/4 sales numbers. Once you DO get through your manufacture period, you have to get the units on the shelves at Target, BestBuy, Fry's, GameStop and anyone else you've contracted shelf space with. What? You think those end caps and front facing shelf spaces are just free and randomly put together by the store staffs? That's cute.

Bottom line to the above? AC5 is already well into alpha (feature complete) and possibly already into beta (asset complete) if they want to hit that late August/early Sept submission date they have looming ahead of them.

Best estimates I've heard from people I know at Ubi are that the additional female character was prototyped out very early but sidelined as the game itself is massive and requires an inordinate amount of work just to get the co-op working in the first place. They wanted to get back to the female character, but after costing her out, discovered it would take between 25-50 days of work to get her added in properly (that's the important word, by the way - will get back to it in a bit).

That 25-50 days isn't something you can just throw money and people at by the way. Character pipelines don't work that way. You can't start rescripting or animating new cut-scenes before you have the new rigged model. You can't rig the model till have the model. You can't build the model till have the concept art. You can't record the VO for the cut scenes and in-game play till have the script written. You have to then find the actress who will record the voice, and another actress to record the mocap.

All of this takes time. Time from someone already working late into the day/night and possibly on weekends. Because they're working on OTHER parts of the game. Because the game isn't done just because you saw a trailer at E3. Chances are the trailer wasn't done by ANYONE on the team and likely was outsourced out to a cinematics house.

The game date was likely set a year or more in advance by people setting up the contracts I mentioned above, so you may as well consider that date damn near sacred. That means to get the new character in, something had to give...or rather several somethings. Because unlike many other things in life, game development really can be zero-sum. To gain X cost of features, you have to give up X. But some execs don't think that way - they want X and don't want to give up shit. So they'll grind your team into the dirt to get there (if they're not all that worried about tech debt piling up or in keeping the team together after shipping). Other execs get it - at least to a point. They might ask for lower quality on this or that or may only "suggest" that you extend your team's hours.

However, most teams on AAA don't want to give up quality for anything. Why? Because that means lower Metacritic scores for one thing...a thing that most studio bonuses are inextricably intertwined with. Busted your ass for 2 years on a project and it's expected to bring in a 90 Metacritic so you can get your 20% IC bonus? Wait, you only got an 88% because some jackass kid who gets paid in pagecounts and free games decided you did a half-assed job on the animations for the female character compared to the male and the side-quests weren't involved enough (because your team threw those out to work on the female characters)...no bonus for you, sucker!

This whole subject makes my stomach turn to shit. I know a LOT of people on those teams. Good people. They WANT to bring in more features - female characters definitely is part of that. They hate being called sexist. They hate upper management telling them estimates for their work that they KNOW is wrong ("only a couple of days worth of animations" might as well read "fuck you every other animator who can't do as well as I think I can as fast as I can on new tech").

I know very few devs who are true asshats (yeah, lots of brilliant jerks, a handful of outright assholes, most are just great people who do this for love, not money - they could stop making games and go build tax software tomorrow and double their paychecks in some cases). It's personal when I see people I know and respect called liars or sexist.

I hope the post helped you see a bit into our lives as much as it helped me to get some of this off my chest.





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0
 06.13.2014 6:03am


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



That guy on reddit sounds like a jackass to me. On this subject, I'll trust the words of Jonathan Cooper (currently of Naughty Dog, was animation director of ACIII) any day over that random dude who didn't even give his name.




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0
 06.13.2014 9:55am


Zo
another blue ribbon



Wow the attitude on that Reddit post. 

"FINE I'll just make everyone stay late and never see their kids so that you can get equal representation in videogames you ASSHOLE"

Although if that's legit it's an interesting look at the attitudes behind AAA development. He talks about female character like they're this luxurious additional feature (as opposed to, say, having equal competition for the protagonist's spot), which pissed me off but then I realised that it all feeds back into what I was saying before - you gotta sell the game. The Metacritic comment is telling - they have two years and millions of dollars to create something amazing, but if they don't get 90% on Metacritic then they fucked up. 




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0
 06.13.2014 12:05pm


Murasame
HALE YEAH



I get the AAA argument. I understand it. I hate it, but I understand it.

What I don't understand is why you would pick the French Revolution for the setting of an AssCreed game and not realise how big a deal not having a female assassin avatar would be. The French Revolution.

Edit: THE FRENCH REVOLUTION




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0
 06.13.2014 1:49pm


Amer
pew pew pew



As a software developer in a management position, everything in that Reddit post hits awfully close to home.

I still think they are lazy for not running with it from the beginning, but if they are really to this point already (I had no idea when the game is coming out) then yeah, I don't think they can insert it. 

It's like when people come into my office asking for "this tiny little change to make it work the way it works over in this other area of the software" and i have to come back and tell them that if we started today it would be QA tested complete in 10 days and they come back "the customer wants it tomorrow". 




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0
 06.13.2014 2:21pm


Big Tall
Taller Than Tall



Oh don't worry, I'm sure it'll be DLC or a UPlay reward.




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0
 06.13.2014 2:26pm


Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007



Uuuuuuuugh ... yeah, I know, it'd be better than nothing at this point, but still.




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0
 06.13.2014 3:41pm


Id82
Fuck Shit Stack.



With this public outcry over not having female protagonists in video games. I'm willing to bet things will change around at the next E3 just so these companies can say. "See we can put females in video games!"




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