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E3 2014

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06.13.2014 4:01pm

reido
(\/)(o,,,o)(\/)

Murasame said:

I get the AAA argument. I understand it. I hate it, but I understand it.

What I don't understand is why you would pick the French Revolution for the setting of an AssCreed game and not realise how big a deal not having a female assassin avatar would be. The French Revolution.

Edit: THE FRENCH REVOLUTION

"It's set in Japan. No, no, you can't be a ninja."

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06.13.2014 7:44pm

Zo
another blue ribbon

To be fair, to my knowledge no-one's said that there won't be female assassins in the game at all. Just that they won't be PCs.

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06.14.2014 1:49am

SuperSquall
Shortening His Posts

You know what I've decided that I accept Ubisofts argument. That redditor convinced me.

Ubi can cut all of the male characters from the next AC game to save time.

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06.14.2014 2:19am

Thread Creator

Scribe
The Taru

I have a feeling that I am apart of the majority- the gamers that really don't give a shit if the character is male or female- and throwing a gigantic bitching fit over it isn't getting me to care more. If people had the attitudes of: it would be cool to see something fresh in gaming... you know in a humble approach instead of this lynch mob mentality. This current approach people take makes me hope they never get their way, because they're rolling on the ground kicking and flailing about it.

People are fucking starving in the world and have real problems and you're spending your energy on video games even when you aren't playing them. Negative energy to boot! Get the fuck over yourselves and make a video game if you want one a specific way. Or, you know, stop fucking playing them.

That's how I feel. Back on topic: This E3 kicked serious ass compared to previous years and might be the best I've ever seen. I can't remember the last time I had this big of a list of titles that I wanted to play.

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06.14.2014 3:01am

Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007

Scribe said:

I have a feeling that I am apart of the majority- the gamers that really don't give a shit if the character is male or female- and throwing a gigantic bitching fit over it isn't getting me to care more. If people had the attitudes of: it would be cool to see something fresh in gaming... you know in a humble approach instead of this lynch mob mentality. This current approach people take makes me hope they never get their way, because they're rolling on the ground kicking and flailing about it.

"How dare people push for representation in video games in the year 2014, and how dare they do it in a way I disagree with."

People are fucking starving in the world and have real problems and you're spending your energy on video games even when you aren't playing them.

"I've given 50% of my income to feed starving children in Africa. I've done more for humanity than you."

Negative energy to boot! Get the fuck over yourselves and make a video game if you want one a specific way. Or, you know, stop fucking playing them.

"The video game industry caters to me by default. I like it that way. Because my lazy ass doesn't have to make video games for me. But screw the rest of you."

....

Yeah, someone needs to take his own advice and get the fuck over himself.

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06.14.2014 3:25am

Zubis
Registered Member

Anyone know what sort of bonus game devs get if their Metacritic score is say, +90%?

5K? 10K? 20K? I have no idea.

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06.14.2014 6:09am

shooter_mcgavin
Registered Member

Scribe said:
People are fucking starving in the world and have real problems and you're spending your energy on video games even when you aren't playing them. Negative energy to boot! Get the fuck over yourselves and make a video game if you want one a specific way. Or, you know, stop fucking playing them.

I think you should avoid using that card.

For one we are all gamers but what we do in our personal time and money is probably to each their own, are there real problems in the world, sure. But we are gamers and we are on the subject on games and not starving children in the world.

Secondly, As for making Videogames, yeah that is like saying "oh the meat you bought in our supermarket was rotten? Too bad if you don't like it why don't you kill your own cow".

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06.14.2014 7:14am

(Edited on 06.14.2014 at 7:19am)

Kellios
Yikes and away!

Zubis said:

Anyone know what sort of bonus game devs get if their Metacritic score is say, +90%?

5K? 10K? 20K? I have no idea.

Entirely depends on the game/studio/publisher, your position (programmer, artist, designer, etc), and your seniority, but yes, a range to 5k-20k + isn't entirely out of the question. And it's a fucking shitty system knowing that all the hardwork I've put into a game that my potential bonus money can be fucked over by some idiotic gaming "journalist" review (and has for me personally - my last game had a meta score of 88. That hurt).

And that Reddit post is spot on. You guys calling him a "jackass" and having "attitude" shows how little understanding you have about how development works. And Jonathan Coop himself tweeted, "That said, character models, voice acting and the systems to switch them take more time." Not to mention character materials/textures, collision/hitboxes, scripting, rendering/engineering... it all very quickly adds up. Yes, animation is one of the first things brought up because it's one of the most obvious changes, but it's far from the only thing.

You also can't berate that post for not including their actual credentials. The NDA's developers are struck with are ridiculous, and it's out of self protection (not just for your job but also your career) to not share too much info, ESPECIALLY on a site such as Reddit. The right people would figure out very quickly who actually said it, and then goodbye job/career/time in the industry.

And yeah, there's attitude with that post because we developers fucking want women in our games too, and we're just as frustrated knowing it can't always happen. But our very first JOB on these games is to make the best one possible that we can for what we want to do with the resources we have. It looks like the huge push on Unity was to make co-op seemless and smooth. That's a huge deal for a game that's otherwise not built as a co-op/online game. That takes a lot of resources and time.

Asassin's Creed doesn't have the luxury of being able to delay the game. They are yearly releases, and those dates are set in stone. So when time is of the essence, you make choices. Ubi made a bad one here. But game development hours are long enough (especially on projects that have set in stone release dates), and crunch time is a very real thing that will destroy the health of developers. Development is a team effort and you HAVE to look out for the health of your team, otherwise no matter what you release it will suffer and not be as good. So sorry, call developers selfish - god forbid they only want to work 50 hours a week instead of 75+, god forbid they want to take their vacations, spend time with friends and family and have a life outside of working on a title that someone on the internet is going to bitch and complain about anyways.

But go on. Keep calling Ubi lazy. Stupid? Yes. Lazy? Not in any fuckng way.

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06.14.2014 9:38am

Zo
another blue ribbon

That was really informative Kellios, thanks.

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06.14.2014 5:21pm

Onyx
Butts
Administrator

Yeah, I'll take the word of actual game developers over armchair critics who don't know how development actually works. Thanks Kell.

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06.14.2014 5:26pm

SuperSquall
Shortening His Posts

Kellios said:

And that Reddit post is spot on. You guys calling him a "jackass" and having "attitude" shows how little understanding you have about And yeah, there's attitude with that post because we developers fucking want women in our games too, and we're just as frustrated knowing it can't always happen. But our very first JOB on these games is to make the best one possible that we can for what we want to do with the resources we have. It looks like the huge push on Unity was to make co-op seemless and smooth. That's a huge deal for a game that's otherwise not built as a co-op/online game. That takes a lot of resources and time.

Asassin's Creed doesn't have the luxury of being able to delay the game. They are yearly releases, and those dates are set in stone. So when time is of the essence, you make choices. Ubi made a bad one here. But game development hours are long enough (especially on projects that have set in stone release dates), and crunch time is a very real thing that will destroy the health of developers. Development is a team effort and you HAVE to look out for the health of your team, otherwise no matter what you release it will suffer and not be as good. So sorry, call developers selfish - god forbid they only want to work 50 hours a week instead of 75+, god forbid they want to take their vacations, spend time with friends and family and have a life outside of working on a title that someone on the internet is going to bitch and complain about anyways.

But go on. Keep calling Ubi lazy. Stupid? Yes. Lazy? Not in any fuckng way.

I am never going to call anyone in the trenches in the video game industry lazy, because the fact that most take pay cuts and work longer hours just to work in the gaming industry is pretty well known. No one is upset at the developers (as in the people working on development). All of the developers are basically saying "We want to but we can't because of the business side of things - the way we have to make the game makes it such that we can't put women in it" and it has a grain of truth to it, but that is EXACTLY what people are pissed off about. There is some asshole who has defined the release schedule and the priorities and has completely cut half of the planet's population out, and they have done it in a historical game where women factored in pretty heavily, and no one has fucking owned up to it. The Devs have said "we want to but we can't" and the business guys have said "Oh no that's way too expensive, for some reason THAT feature is the one that is way over the top". I get that shit gets cut - ROME was cut from AC2.

But seriously, let's consider their argument is 100% valid and gender can in no way be prioritized above anything elsel: if they only have time for one gender why is the assumption always that it has to be males? Females always get cut. Why is it just crazy to not have any males in the game? I know there is probably some marketing reason, but let's just focus on the fact that it seems fucking nuts to have a game with no males in it. The fact that that seems too crazy to do is the REAL thing that is too fucking crazy.

Everyone is pissed off because developers, for whatever reason, always cut women, and never cut men. If it is a female-centric game, it's still for men because she's Bayonetta or something to that effect.

Some business asshole may say something like "While our demographic is primarily dudes and we have to blah blah pander." No shit. The way priorities have worked, who can be surprised that your market is entirely made up of straight white males? You've done everything for that demographic, and you've quite consciously done it in a way that is to the exclusion to everyone else.

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06.14.2014 5:49pm

Onyx
Butts
Administrator

When it comes to video games, the only message major publishers understand is the bottom line. If you want female assassins to feature prominently in future games, buy AC Liberation either on the Vita or the HD version on XBox Live or PSN, which Ubisoft did a pretty miserable job of marketing but then they probably just saw it as a way to recoup losses from the Vita original. And boycott Unity if you feel that strongly about it. Way too many people who are expressing outrage are going to end up buying the game anyway and the message that sends to Ubisoft is "WE ARE ANGRY ABOUT THIS! But we're still going to spend $60+ on this game despite that." (see: the hilarious Modern Warfare 2 "boycott" where all the organizers bought the game day 1).

Fighting for changes isn't easy or convenient.

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06.14.2014 6:07pm

(Edited on 06.15.2014 at 5:57am)

Rhaegar
World Warrior 21007

It was actually a lengthy thread that turned into a petition on Ubisoft's forums that persuaded them to port it over from the Vita.

AC Liberation is available on Steam, too. I'm not going to call it a masterpiece; it's clear they didn't devote as much resources and effort into it as a mainline AC title, but I had fun with it. The persona system was interesting to me, but I can understand people who might find it an inconvenience.

But really, between AC Liberation's relatively half-baked marketing and development, versus marketing the mainline to straight white males, it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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06.15.2014 9:12am

Thread Creator

Scribe
The Taru

Rhaegar said:
Yeah, someone needs to take his own advice and get the fuck over himself.

So I have to be Mother Teresa to be able to state that there are more important issues going on in the world than the female population of video game characters?

Forgive me for wanting to pull somebody out of their first world problems and see how incredibly rediculous it is for a human being to be so committed to creating negative emotions about a form of entertainment.

Why emit such bad energy by attacking developers? You would think there would be a more constructive approach. Not you personally, because you know... your construction of thoughts seems to be purely fabrication as well as a gross exaggeration to avoid any serious social acountability (immature).

I'm going to give you some advice that you should apply in every aspect of your life: if you want something to change in the world- be that change. Soap box barking at others to create what you want.... is most likely going to prove fruitless and it's really really annoying as fuck.

Lastly, if you REALLY want to get serious about your preaching role for this particular matter: know that I'm more open minded than the gamer you want to convince and so far all I can say is you need to go back to the drawing board. Don't believe me, bring this debate into a GTA V online match and see how much you get through to the players of this generations highest selling game. That's the majority you're going to need support from, good luck.

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06.15.2014 9:41am

shooter_mcgavin
Registered Member

Scribe said:
Forgive me for wanting to pull somebody out of their first world problems and see how incredibly rediculous it is for a human being to be so committed to creating negative emotions about a form of entertainment.

As someone living from a developing country seriously what is wrong with first world problems? Experincing a time when infrastructure was terrible (and still kind of is) I'd rather live a world with first world problems than 3 hours a day blackouts regularly and no clean running water for years.

I'd rather in a position where what worries me is stuff about games which may seem trvial than having to worry about having food on the table every day.

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