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Mass Effect 3 Ending Discussion (May Have Unmarked Spoilers)

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0

06.27.2012 10:44am

Darth Revan
Jen' Jari Iv Tave Sith

Ok... so I've had time to rethink of my opinion of the endings (posted that previous post when I was half asleep and not in a stable frame of mind...). I can honestly say, I didn't like any of the endings. None of them fit in with how I envisioned my Shepard would act or do (I grudgingly choose CONTROL...). I already wasn't comfortable with the 'Shepard performs mandatory invasive cybernetic surgery on the whole of existence because he - is - GOD!!!'

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

And the whole idea of the Reapers becoming more organic still explained - in what way exactly? Are we going to see Reapers with a giant set of organic ears? Legs? Hell, why not give them the full set of tackle whilst you're at it - that'd make for an interesting issue of Fornax... But seriously, the whole glowing power lines in people's faces and the glowing green eyes... Epic, epic fail, Bioware!

So everyone just gets along in the Synthesis ending? So when Saren mentioned that Sovereign's opinion of the Geth (fellow synthetics after all) was to be utterly insulted that they felt they had anything in common, he was just completely wrong? More retcon from Bioware, and its just as stupid as ever. Plus the idea of Harbinger strolling down the street, saying hello to the neighbours and heading down to the newsagents to 'ASSUME CONTROL OF THIS NEWSPAPER... AND A PACKET OF CHIPS TOO, PLEASE' is... yeah.

The Destroy ending is still full of the same problems I had with it before -

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

that you have to volunteer the Geth and EDI to take one for the team in their absence, and despite assuring them that you wouldn't. The walkback on the mass relays is also hilarious, because its such a 'Oh that doesn't work and everyone hated it, so tah-dah! Now they're just damaged!' cop-out.

It had to be done, but it still leaves Bioware looking like utter fools for not realising what a colossally stupid move it was to destroy the relays in every ending to begin with.

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

Also, the 'let's get to the rendez-vous point' bit was another really dumb part. So your plan involved activating the Crucible and then running away, leaving everyone on Earth still fighting? Er... did I miss that part of the briefing? Or is another case of volunteering people to make sacrifices?

Either way, your team still managed to miraculously hoof it back to the Normandy away from Harbinger... Lame.

Which just leaves Control, which is still the only ethical ending IMO (which is really stupid, as its supposed to be the Renegade ending).

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

The only race you affect is the bad guys, and now we know that Shepard not only controls them properly, but starts getting them to help out and protect the galaxy. Yet again, its a case of Shepard - is - GOD!' and even worse because the method of control is still completely unearned, and really, really dumb ('Oh you want to control the Reapers? Well, there's nothing to it - just push down these two levers which are covered in lightning, and you're all set...)

I mean... Godlike power and control over the Reapers achieved by someone who knows nothing about them, doesn't empathise with them or their goals at all, has no idea how to even think about controlling them, and yet push the magic levers and bob's your uncle. Its a really, really stupid ending, but like I say, its the only one I feel able to choose. It harms nobody

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

(i.e EDI and the Geth live, the Reapers are stopped, nobody has to become glowing green eyed cyborgs, and everything's hunky dory).

Okay, so Shepard dies, but unless you choose Destroy, that's always the case, and I don't care how many Paragon points you have - peace achieved by the betrayal of the Geth and EDI is not something any Paragon should ever even consider.

So yeah, I consider all the endings to be a bit of a 'That's it?!' waste of time. And there was nothing there that I hadn't already assumed anyway. It has cemented my view that Paragons should always choose Control - and that the game seriously screwed up its logic and consistency by making that the case! The whole Messiah thing for Shepard is lame in the extreme, and doesn't feel earned in any of the endings. Its still just space magic that only works in the way it does because of Word of God.

The endings are just so insubstantial, being essentially a quick series of 'It looks bad - but actually the galaxy lived happily ever after - The End'.

There was no real meat to it, no character interest. Just some vague assurances that the galaxy was alright, and that the Normandy was only on that planet because... they felt like a quick rest?! Plus there's still no personal endings like 'After the war, Harbinger became a Gym Instructor etc etc'. Which is I think what most people most wanted (other than having Shepard survive and live with his LI forever - yawn).

The endings are still rubbish, the climbdowns from Bioware on all sorts of issues are necessary, but still make them look cowardly and foolish. No amount of extra cutscenes can change the fact that the direction the series took, and the lack of explanation about the Reapers etc until it was far too late, torpedoed any chance of a great finish.

But hey, it wasn't like I was expecting much to begin with. The endings didn't put me off playing Mass Effect 3, and these new endings don't either (though they don't inspire me to download them either). The foundations from ME2 and ME3 just weren't there for the resolution to the Reaper story to satisfy me in any way. So my opinion on the game is basically completely unchanged (i.e I liked it, but didn't love it. Too rushed and the main story stopped being good after ME1).

Now all we need is a Jade Empire extended cut - where you actually can punch a mountain in space.

0

06.27.2012 1:27pm

Big Tall
Taller Than Tall

JSG said:

The extended endings are all vast improvements and I'm very satisfied. Sure, it doesn't fix all my problems with the Star Child's existence, but they weren't going to do that and to think they would is stupid. They took the endings we got, make them better. They feel like proper endings now. So overall, fuck yeah.

The new ending is my favorite, though. Troll or not, I fucking love it in the context of the story.

Yep, they made the endings better, fleshed out the conversations a bit more and filled in a lot of the plot holes and questions we had so I'm pleased. Very pleased actually, to the point I don't want to start picking nits (though I'm sure I will).

0

06.27.2012 6:16pm

Thread Creator (Edited on 06.27.2012 at 8:56pm)

Zubis
Registered Member

There are some really cool slides in the endings that not many people have seen yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcrebZRrx0g

Also, the internet has named the race that created the Reapers: The Derpians.

I'm ok with this.

0

06.28.2012 3:39am

Inquisitor
Jericholic V2.0

Darth Revan said:

Okay, so Shepard dies, but unless you choose Destroy, that's always the case, and I don't care how many Paragon points you have - peace achieved by the betrayal of the Geth and EDI is not something any Paragon should ever even consider.

I disagree. I was 80% Paragon in my playthrough and this was the only viable option I could think of for my Shepard. My mission from the moment I stepped foot on Eden Prime and disabled those bombs Saren set up was to destroy the Reapers. My Shepard didn't know it at that moment, but that was his mission. And he was a solider through and through.

I get the idea that betraying the Geth and EDI by choosing Destroy does present a bit of an ethical conflict, but my Shepard understood that there would be sacritices in this war. But he had a mission - which was to save the galaxy by destroying the Reapers. My Shepard didn't trust the control option because he couldn't ethically accept the power he fought so hard to stop the Illusive Man from obtaining. To choose that option would make him a hypocrite, and my Shepard was not a hypocrite. He may have had to make some morally questionable decisions at times, but ultimately he was a man guided by principle and values. My Shepard couldn't choose Synthesis either because it was not his place to tell the rest of the galaxy that they would evolve into a new string of being because he was afraid to make a tough choice that would require sacrifice. No, my Shepard chose to destroy the Reapers because to him - it was the only ethical option available, and he knew there would be sacrifice. My Shepard also brokered peace between the geth and quarians, and turians, and krogan. So he didn't believe the StarChild when he said that if he chose to the destroy the Reapers synthetics would rise again and wipe out organics. Maybe they would, but my Shepard had already proved the StarChild wrong and he wasn't about to abandon his mission and play God in ways he didn't feel qualified to do.

But I digress. What is great about Mass Effect is that my Shepard is different than yours and everyone else's.

Regarding the endings now that I have had a day to sit on them. I have a few minor complaints, but overall am satisfied

1) I wish that we had gotten a slide on each remaining party member who was alive with a text crawl (Suikoden style). Or even if we didn't get the text crawl, something for everyone. They were created, so there's no reason we shouldn't have. But I digress, this is a minor gripe that youtube can easily fix

2) More Harbinger. I don't even need a fight. Just some type of confrontation with him, even if it's after talking to the StarChild before choosing whatever option I choose. After having such a big role in ME2 it seems empty without him in some capacity in ME3

3) A slide, or cinematic with Shepard reuniting with the crew in the "Shepard lives" ending.

4) The option to win if you have a high enough EMS and War Assets if you refuse any of the StarChild's options. Part of my loves that you can't because the Reapers have been made out to be this unstoppable force, and the Codex even says they can't be defeatd by conventional means, but Mass Effect has been about overcoming the odds from day one. One more chance to do that, even if I have to import 3000 war assets from MP and have 100% galactic readiness. I'll take that chance. The other part of me though loves that BioWare basically trolled the fans by allowing us to refuse and then making only one outcome after that.

Overall though, these are minor and do not take away from my enjoyment of the game, series or ending of ME3 at this point. Just "nice to haves" that we didn't get. And I can live with that. I have a much different outlook on the games then I did three months ago.

0

06.28.2012 6:54am

Fincher
Deep Water Horizon

Inquisitor said:

I disagree. I was 80% Paragon in my playthrough and this was the only viable option I could think of for my Shepard. My mission from the moment I stepped foot on Eden Prime and disabled those bombs Saren set up was to destroy the Reapers. My Shepard didn't know it at that moment, but that was his mission. And he was a solider through and through.

I get the idea that betraying the Geth and EDI by choosing Destroy does present a bit of an ethical conflict, but my Shepard understood that there would be sacritices in this war. But he had a mission - which was to save the galaxy by destroying the Reapers. My Shepard didn't trust the control option because he couldn't ethically accept the power he fought so hard to stop the Illusive Man from obtaining. To choose that option would make him a hypocrite, and my Shepard was not a hypocrite. He may have had to make some morally questionable decisions at times, but ultimately he was a man guided by principle and values. My Shepard couldn't choose Synthesis either because it was not his place to tell the rest of the galaxy that they would evolve into a new string of being because he was afraid to make a tough choice that would require sacrifice. No, my Shepard chose to destroy the Reapers because to him - it was the only ethical option available, and he knew there would be sacrifice. My Shepard also brokered peace between the geth and quarians, and turians, and krogan. So he didn't believe the StarChild when he said that if he chose to the destroy the Reapers synthetics would rise again and wipe out organics. Maybe they would, but my Shepard had already proved the StarChild wrong and he wasn't about to abandon his mission and play God in ways he didn't feel qualified to do.

My Paragon Shepard thinks that controlling the Reapers, enemy or not, would make him no different than them with their husks and indoctrination. Also, what if in the process of losing his humanity, his ideals get twisted? What if he continues down that path to the point of indoctrinating everyone in order to protect them from each other? Destroy is far, far from ideal, but he went into this knowing that lives would have to be sacrificed. Playing robot puppetmaster to a nearly all-powerful reaper arsenal is a different story.

Currently playing: Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box, Picross DS
Last played: Time Hollow (good)
Last watched: Agent Carter (very good)
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0

06.28.2012 2:26pm

CaButler
Winter Knight of the Unseelie Court

For my Shepard, Destroy is the only one that makes sense.

For this war, he has killed, negotiated and died for these people. So when he's given the option to control the Reapers or turn everything synthetic, how does it respond? If this was possible, this would be my Shepard's response:

"Ha ha, no. *bang bang*"

0

06.28.2012 4:08pm

Indiana Jerico
Sinfully Delicious v2
Administrator

So I just finished the Extended Ending DLC and I selected my original choice (Control) and I'm fucking glad I did. Like reido, I also feel vindicated with my decision. It would really be what my Shephard would do and for me, it is the right choice.

===

"Plans? What plans? I'm making this up as I go!"

d e v i a t i o n �?� i m a g i n a t i o n

0

06.28.2012 4:09pm

JSG
Registered Member

CaButler said:

For my Shepard, Destroy is the only one that makes sense.

For this war, he has killed, negotiated and died for these people. So when he's given the option to control the Reapers or turn everything synthetic, how does it respond? If this was possible, this would be my Shepard's response:

"Ha ha, no. *bang bang*"

That's an option now.

You can just shoot the kid and get an ending. Or simply tell him "ha ha, no."

There are four endings now.

0

06.28.2012 5:31pm

Big Tall
Taller Than Tall

I had read somewhere that the minimum war assets now needed for the "Shepard Lives" part is down to 3100. Tried it out last night and, yep, it works. So now there's no need to worry about MP readiness affecting your single player experience to get the "best" ending.

0

06.29.2012 4:42pm

Thread Creator

Zubis
Registered Member

Interesting. Apparently the Control ending's dialogue varies depending on if you are a Paragon or Renegade. That explains why I found my Control ending so sinister, because Shepard was a bastard in my playthrough.

0

06.29.2012 9:10pm

Tristan
Just Giv'r

Ah see that's pretty cool because there's definitely some grey area to each of the options. I could definitely see the pros and cons to what amounted to Saren's choice, the Illusive Man's choice and....Anderson/Shepard's choice? But my Shep talked down both Saren and the IM so picking those is a bit hypocritical for him and the morality of things isn't the greatest so Destroy still works best. Anyone's Shepard is there to get it done period so every option is a good one I suppose. Space magic is still kinda fucking stupid but eh, means to an end.

Heh the way things are I can still headcanon that the geth and perhaps EDI can be rebuilt after Destroy because it's kinda chalk full of loopholes and variables. Hell the some of the geth could easily be out of the range of the Relay space magic, no?

Did they add any Harbinger stuff at all? I'm not that worried but it does seem a waste in hindsight that aside from a Codex mention or two he was a no show for ME3.

0

06.30.2012 2:00am

Inquisitor
Jericholic V2.0

Spoiler: Move your mouse over the container to reveal.

People have said that if you choose the refuse option from the StarChild he says "So be it" in Harbinger's voice. I did not catch that it was Harbinger myself, but I can definitely be swayed to believe it is him.

Anyone think it's possible we see Harbinger in DLC?

I was thinking that too regarding EDI and the geth. I mean, even though BioWare didn't change the ending, they definitely dramatically changed some things. I don't know if it was from fan reaction or the fact that the fan reaction made them realize how poorly written some of their key plot points actually were. The fact that the StarChild not explicitely says the Mass Relays aren't destroyed, and the epilogue says they were fixed tells me that.

If the Mass Relays could be repaired why couldn't EDI and the geth?

0

06.30.2012 2:25am

Indiana Jerico
Sinfully Delicious v2
Administrator

Inquisitor said:If the Mass Relays could be repaired why couldn't EDI and the geth?

The reason why I chose control was precisely because of the geth and EDI, and Legion's sacrifice. Remember that EDI and the geth have already acquired sentience and their own unique personalities; in more than one way, they are already "alive". My take is that you cannot repair a fully destroyed EDI or geth any more than you can resurrect a dead person. If that was the case, then Legion should've been repaired a long time ago, as well.

===

"Plans? What plans? I'm making this up as I go!"

0

06.30.2012 3:00am

Onyx
Butts
Administrator

Legion's body can be repaired/restored quite easily. The thing is the AI in it. If Destroy wipes out the AI, that's that. You can always make a new one, but it won't quite be the same. Unless the Mass Effect universe has a giant Recycle Bin somewhere, you can't just recover a sentient AI that's been wiped out from existence.

Mass Relays are just technology, not sentient beings. Short of outright destruction, you can fix one with enough time and knowledge.

The more I hear about this Leviathan the more interested I am. It sounds really interesting! Hope it isn't just a red (or green or blue </easyjoke>) herring.

0

06.30.2012 3:50am

Indiana Jerico
Sinfully Delicious v2
Administrator

Onyx said:

Legion's body can be repaired/restored quite easily. The thing is the AI in it. If Destroy wipes out the AI, that's that. You can always make a new one, but it won't quite be the same

Yep, that's what I meant. Sorry for the non-clarity.

===

"Plans? What plans? I'm making this up as I go!"

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